The Buyer’s Gear Guide : Overdrive and Distortion
I often get the question “which overdrive and/or distortion pedal covers most of David’s tones?”. Naturally the answer will depend on which tone or era you prefer but if you’re only looking for one or two pedals that can do it all I recommend the Maxon OD808 and the ProCo RAT.
Now, neither the RAT nor the Overdrive 808 (or Tube Screamer 808) are overly exciting tone wise. People who swear by their Cornish or an original “triangle” Big Muff may find them a bit bleak or something they’ll use at home (I guess I’m one of them). Still, what made these pedals legendary were guitarists like Steve Ray Vaughan, Jeff Beck, Carlos Santana and David Gilmour. To me these two pedals sounds just like what a distortion and overdrive should sound like. No thin, fuzzy overtones or treble that will cut you in half. Just a smooth, warm tone suitable for any musical style.
The Fuzz Face, Big Muff and Colorsound Power Boost were designed to drive the hell out of a clean tube amp like Hiwatts and Sound City. The more gain you added the more gain you got from the tubes and the combination made the pedals silky smooth with a sustain that would last all night long. This is hard to achieve when you’re sitting at home with neighbours all around and playing on a small transistor amp. The RAT and Overdrive/Tube Screamer was designed with the intention of capturing the sound of a naturally saturated tube amp without having to blow your head off. They sound great at home on your little amp and awesome on stage with your tube stack.
The Maxon OD 808 Overdrive
The Japanese company Nisshin Onpa started making guitar pedals in the mid 70’s and issued them under the name Ibanez outside Japan. At the same time they sold the same pedals under the name Maxon in Japan. After Ibanez and Nisshin parted ways in early 2000, Maxon is now available in most countries and have specialized in reissuing the old Maxon line from the late 70’s. In short terms, the Maxon OD808 is the same pedal as the Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-808.
The Overdrive/Tube Screamer was introduced in the late 1970’s and soon became the most popular overdrive unit of all time. The tone is often described as the mother of all overdrives and every overdrive unit made since by any company seems to have been based on this pedal.
Compared to a Colorsound Power Boost the Overdrive/Tube Screamer has a much more modern sound with a smooth, warm tone and a distinct mid range. It ranges from clean boost to a fairly mild classic Marshall Plexi overdrive.
The Overdrive/Tube Screamer is also great for boosting a distortion unit like a Big Muff or the RAT just like David is using the Colorsound Power Boost and the Tube Driver.
Soundclip: Dogs of War
- CIJ ’62 Custom reissue Telecaster with CS ’62 pickups > Boss CS-2 > Maxon OD808 (od 4:00, bal 3:00, tone 9:00) > Marshall 5210 50w solid state > Garageband adding delay and reverb.
David and the Overdrive/Tube Screamer
Ideally I’d go for two overdrives in a Gilmour setup. One vintage sounding with a transparent, glassy tone for the 70’s (Colorsound, Boss BD-2 etc) and one modern sounding with a warm, smooth mid rangy tone for the 80’s, 90’s and present. Still, the Overderdrive/Tube Screamer will cover any Gilmour era with some tweaking. By setting the tone control on the pedal fairly bright you’ll get a tone similar to David’s on typically Money, Have a Cigar and Pigs. With the tone control rolled down for a warmer slightly more dirty tone it will sound very much like a Cornish SS-2 or the Tube Driver on songs like Coming Back to Life, Shine On and Another Brick in the Wall (part 2) from PULSE.
David used an Ibanez TS10 on the 1988-90 leg of the Momentary Lapse tour.
Which one to choose
As mentioned, the Maxon OD808 and the Ibanez TS808 are identical. The original first editions are hen’s teeth among collectors but both are recently reissued with original specs and parts.
Originals
Maxon OD808, Ibanez TS808 and TS9.
Boutiques and clones
BYOC Overdrive, Robert Keeley TS9 and TS808 Mod Plus, Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive.
Budget
BBE Green Screamer, Ibanez Tonelok TS7, Digitech Bad Monkey, Behringer TO800
The ProCo RAT
The RAT was introduced in 1979 and originates from modifying Fuzz Faces for more gain and a generally better tone. Like the Overdrive/ Tube Screamer the RAT soon became one of the most popular distortion pedals ever made.
The tone is very much like having a germanium Fuzz Face boosting a Marshall Plexi with a distinct mid range added. It ranges from near clean to overdrive to compressed distortion. With the distortion control slightly rolled off the RAT is an excellent overdrive pedal and the many mods have utilized this making it an extremely versatile pedal.
Although the RAT sounds great alone it’s recommended to use a booster behind it or an EQ pedal to boost the bass and volume for a bit more attack and balls.
Soundclip: Young Lust
- CIJ 50’s Stratocaster with CS 69 pickups > Boss CS-2 > ProCo “vintage” RAT (dist 2:00, filter 2:00, vol 2:30) > Marshall 5210 50w solid state > Garageband adding delay and reverb.
David and the RAT
As with the overdrive, I recommend having two distortion units in your Gilmour setup, – one fuzz unit for the pre-Animals era and one Big Muff for anything from Animals to present. However, the RAT is capable of producing wild fuzz tones and silky smooth Big Muff tones. With the filter/tone control at about 12:00 and the distortion and volume control at 3:00 you’ll get a bright fuzz type of sound. With all the controls at around 2:00 you’ll get a warm, smooth Big Muff sound. This sounds even better with the Overdrive/Tube Screamer (or any other booster) behind it.
David used a RAT II on the 1988-90 leg of the Momentary Lapse tour and again on the Division Bell tour 1994. The pedal is also seen used on both the sessions for the La Carrera Pan America soundtrack in 1991 and for the Division Bell recording sessions in 1993-94.
Which one to choose
I have the “vintage” or first edition RAT. This is no longer available but it pops up frequently on Ebay. The RAT II has a bit more gain and bass than the “vintage” RAT.
Originals
ProCo “vintage” RAT and RAT II.
Boutiques and clones
BYOC Mouse, Robert Keeley RAT mod, Absolutely Analog Ratzo and Hartman Distortion.
Budget
I haven’t been able to find a good sounding budget model of the RAT. The ones listed above should be affordable for most budgets but if you have some suggestions then please share it in the comments field.
So there you have it. I consider these to be the R2D2 and C3PO of my collection. They belong together. I sometimes forget them and use only my Big Muff or fuzz but then I plug them in it’s meeting good old friends for the first time in years.
Hi there, the very last thing you said about these two pedals is true. They’re much more versatile than Fuzz Faces or Big Muffs besides being a little cheaper too.
Personally, I got a recent RAT II (60 euros used) and with a very little money I can get David-like tones (combining and alternating it with a Chandler Tube Driver and a BYOC Large Beaver muff clone) as well as more heavy and “modern” tones like the Foo Fighters one (from what I know they’re RAT users too).
I believe this is one of the pedals that fits many guitarists needs, not only for Gilmour-addicted ones!
[Agree. While the Big Muff may sound better or more interesting or whatever, it's not very versatile and it can sound horrible in some situations. The RAT seems to fit any musical style. As does the Tube Screamer. - Bjorn]
Nice picks! I’ve got a Digitech Bad Monkey and it suits my OD needs perfectly (and I hated Digitech before I tried one out). Highly recommended!
On the Dogs of War demo can you get that sound with a Strat!!
Cuz that is the sound i’ve always wanted!!
[Yep. Don't know why I used the Telecaster but I get the same tone from my Strat. - Bjorn]
I know everyone will think this is crazy but the Behringer T0800 (Vintage Tube Overdrive) is actually a decent sounding overdrive. It is by far the cheapest thing on my board (plastic housing, super cheap knobs, weak, pcb mounted switch, etc) but it sounds dead on to the tube screamers and clones I have tried. For the price ($20) I just keep a spare around.
I’m also considering the GGG tube screamer kit that is on sale this month. I’m a sucker for diy pedals these days.
[I've done some pretty convincing A/B testing of the Maxon and the Behringer T0800. They sound very similar and the TO800 is a great budget alternative. - Bjorn]
Great review and soundclips(!) of two amazing pedals!
Also, I like the philosophy behind your story.
This way you can get a sound / EQ(!) of the recordings we all know and love in “home situations”.
However, it must have been a (slightly) different tone that was comming out of the amp 30 years ago, during the recording sessions. I believe, the actual producer (mixing desk) did alter the overall EQ of the tracks quite a bit. These albums were masterpieces of the whole studio team. (from sound engineer to producer and end-mastering).
Good to read some advice on a topic like this, because not everybody has all the gear of David…
I’ve just received my BYOC Ram’s Head, it has an extra switch allowing to select the classic Muff “mid scooped” sound or adding more mid to the tone.
Somehow I like it the classic way.
I’ll have to test it within context (within an actual mix).
I will make some recordings soon.
Cheers,
Ernest
[Thanks Ernest! I think both pedals are an excellent choice especially when you're only sitting at home playing. They will sound great on almost any setup. I think most recordings are altered or mixed.. some more than others. On an Island and Fin Cut seems to be fairly clean but Dark Side, WYWH, Animals and Wall especially is the result of some heavy studio tricker. Not to mention PULSE. Keep me posted on your new BYOC :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
Impressives soundlips, Bjorn.
Lovely TS sounds coming from your first clip. It is totally this end 80’s sound that David Gilmour used to have.
A great listening, thank you very much.
[Thanks Deck! - Bjorn]
Interresting article indeed. I’m not familiar with ProCo Rat at all, even though I’ve seen them on pedal boards all over the world and a lot of people seem to adore them. I’m planning to pick on up someday.
I’ve owned a lot of different Tubescreamers over the years. My favorite is definitely T-Rex Engineering Alberta, a great clone with a little enhancement regarding the bass response. But I think most Tubescreamers and it’s clones are a little bit too weak. I’ve even replaced my Alberta with a Xotic AC Booster, which I really adore. It’s absolutly faboulous.
But I strongly recommend a Alberta for anyone looking for a TS808, that’s in fact slightly better than the original.
Keep up the great work, Björn!
[Thanks for the tip Johan! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, interesting article even though I don’t like the TS9 and derived pedals at all. Their excessive midrange and lack of bass response are better suited for driving an already breaking up amp, the same way SRV used it. Alone in a clean Hiwatt amp the sound is way too boxy. All I said IMHO clearly.
About the Rat, sorry but the term modified Fuzz Face is odd, they’re completely 2 different beasts, both sonically and circuit wise. I guess the Rat could be better described as a “overmaxed Tube Screamer” even though it’s definitely a distortion box on it’s own.
Cheers!
[The RAT is not a modified Fuzz Face but Scott Burnham and Steve Kiraly who designed the RAT used to fix, modify and enhance Fuzz Face pedals in their workshop in the early 1970's. From that experience they build the RAT with the idea of creating a unique distortion pedal. - Bjorn]
Interesting guide… I have both the pedals, a rat DIY with 6 different types of clipping and a TS9 /808. it is true that with these two pedals you have so many types of sounds… from the light overdrive to the hell of distortion!!!
Thank you very much…
Hi!
I own a Rat 2 and I was thinking of selling it! It’s very versatile: from Nirvana to Eagles, even metal… It´s a pedal that give us much variety of sound (Overdrive to fuzz) and make a dull amp come alive with less volume!… But, the mix of Rat with a muff or fuzz is to forget (even at low gain settings) I don’t know why! I’ve tried to put the pedal in different places (in pedal chain) and it doesn’t work either! :(
I’ve used the TS9 and TS10 (from Ibanez) and I found no problem with it! It really warm the sound with no extra noise! And… mix very well with the Rat!
In my page I have a clip with Rat + Leslie and analog delay. It’s a damn good pedal, but to be honest I prefer the Coloursound with the muff and Butler with fuzz…
Again… thank you for your spectacular work! Greetings from Portugal! ;-)
[Thanks João! I don't think you should blend two distortion pedals. You'll get a lot of feedback and noise problems because of the high gain. It's much better to use a booster or overdrive for boosting the distortion. - Bjorn]
i use the byoc large beaver and behringer to800 and i have to say, the large beaver is my favourite dirt pedal.. very smooth with a tube amp.. still have not found a good setting for the to800 though.. keep messing around with it.. but great article bjorn, was wondering if the to800 is less worthy than its high end cousins and i guess i found my answer!
[Glad you enjoyed the article :) Thanks! - Bjorn]
Once again, great guitar lesson Bjorn ! And one another pedal to buy for my gear. I have difficulties to get a great sound from my byoc large beaver at home, it sounds too tricky, with not enough “rough medium grain”. You convinced me that the RAT should be the one for low volume home work. Thank you very much indeed.
[Yeah, the Large Beaver is my main distortion but as you describe it doesn't sound that good on a small practice amp. The RAT is a perfect alternative. - Bjorn]
Nice article Bjorn,
I totally agree about the RAT – extremely versatile unit, i adore the RAT so much that I have two of them. One, a duecetone RAT (basically two RATs in one pedal) on my board that can be seen in the gallery, and another vintage RAT that I have hanging around for studio use and for a future pedalboard project.
For a cheap RAT clone, you can try the Behringer DM100 Distortion Modeller. I have the usual complaints about behringer pedals (cheap plastic cases etc.) but the RAT setting on this pedal while not an exact match, does a very good job indeed.
On a side note, has anybody has a chance to try the behringer PH9 phaser and DC9 compressor pedals? They seem to be aimed at cloning the MXR pedals.
Cheers
Dean
[Thanks for the tip abut the DM100. I haven't tried the PH9 or DC9... Anyone? - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn. Another great article, thank you. I used to own a Tube Screamer and unless it was used to overdrive my Bassman amp, I just couldn’t get on with it. In that respect, I agree with what Fred said. I’ve always been tempted to buy a Rat and now I think I may. Way to stimulate the economy….LOL. I have to say that I can get so many different sounds out of the Large Beaver with the mids toggle mod. But I’m willing to give the Rat a try now.
[I just got home from rehearsals. My ears are still ringing :) The Large Beaver is by far my fav distortion unit although I haven't tried the mids toggle version. The Maxon OD808 sounds better alone on my Marshall solid state than on my Sound City but I sometimes have the Colorsound set in front of it with a warm clean boost and the tone is dead on David's Shine On, Another Brick, Coming Back etc from PULSE. Very much like the BK Butler with the 12AU7 tube but a bit more creamy and not as boomy. Perhaps more like the Chandler. - Bjorn]
Nice one! The rat is probably the most versatile pedal I’ve ever tried….with some tweaking you can achieve almost every sound you can think of….
Do you think any Tube Screamer could get the job done….or the Ts808 is the one to get?
Cheers!
Leandro
[I've tried a handful of Screamers and I must say the the Maxon sounded a bit smoother than most of them. I guess it's a matter of taste... The ToneLok TS7 is too muddy while the BBE Green Screamer is a surprisingly great sounding budget model. If you've never tried a Screamer before you should keep in mind that they're not as powerful or boomy as the Colorsound or Tube Driver. In comparison it might sound weak but that's what makes the tone too. They're really different types of overdrive. - Bjorn]
Very nice article, I actually found the DS-1 to be a fairly decent budget pedal at low volumes. It’s not the best but for $40 it’s gotten a wide range of Gilmour-esque tones for someone who’s just getting into David’s guitar playing.
This isn’t my video but I think it’s a nice example of what the pedal can do when paired with some delay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ1fWTDMUwY
I can also consider recording some clips of it.
[Personally I think the DS-1 has a bit too much mid range and a bit harsh tone. But I'm sure with some tweaking or perhaps a modified version you'll be able to get some great sounds. - Bjorn]
Hey, Bjorn! Great article and nice clips.
I must say that I’ve been looking for an overdrive unit for a year and still did not found anything satisfying. I had bought the Chandler TD and then sold it, couse it sounded terrible. It was awfully harsh (even supplied with a 12AU7 tube). Just a lo-fi, thin sounded unit. I don’t know what you guys love about it. Maybe I had gotten a wrong version. It was the rack Chandler. The TS sounds nice and I’m considering buying one but there’s still something wrong about it. I think that it’s a little to weak and it steals a lot of guitar attack. Am I right? Have you tried the King of Tone? The samples from the Analogman website sounds very fine.
I’ve got the Large Beaver and Sun Face and both sounds heavenly. I use them at home and don’t hear anything wrong about them on the low volume settings. Highly recommended! But they’re fuzzes and I still want an OD. :)
Cheers
Żarek
[I definitely agree that the Large Beaver and Sun Face are two much better pedals... at least to me they are. Which amp and what kind of pickups did you use with the Chandler? Sounds strange... if you found it thin and lowfi it must have been something wrong. It's everything else than that. Keep in mind too that as with all tube drives stuff you need to let the tube break in for a while. After some weeks the tone cleans up and get much more headroom. - Bjorn]
Where do you think Gilmour used his Tubescreamer for in the 1988-1990 tour? Maybe it was for Dogs Of War? Or Another Brick In The Wall?
I own a Digitech Bad Monkey and it’s a stunning pedal. Definatly as good as a “real” Ibanez or Maxon. They seem to have a bit more gain as well and they are slightly more transparant. Bought it for 30 euro and now my current live setup is just my Les Paul/Strat, the Monkey and my amp. It’s a great box for a fat clean boost or a soloboost on the overdrive channel of my amp (that’s where I use it mainly for) but I’ve never really tried it as an overdrive on the clean channel. Now I heard your clip of the Maxon TS, I will give it a try…
The Rat really seems as a nice and versatile alternative to the Big Muff. Those pedals are sometimes just a bit too noisy and really not what I call versatile.
I really liked your clips and I nearly got a temptation to look for a Rat…
[I have no idea really. The Momentary/Delicate tour was a time of experimentation and a lot of gear swapping. It could have been used for many things, - booster, ovedrive or perhaps just a spare for the TC Booster. There are several Tube Screamer songs on Delicate, - Shine On, Learning to Fly, Dogs of War, Another Brick... - Bjorn]
Hey Bjørn, long time!
Especially this time I really think you captured the big essence of Gilmours guitar! You nailed it as close as one can possibly get. And you proved for all those unexperienced Gilmourheads out there that you don`t need a PULSE-rig to get THE TONE, impressive!
In June I´m taking a trip to “Tigerstaden” heading for Bon Jovi!..
[Hi Thomas! Hope all is well! Thanks for your kind words! Glad you like my clips :) Bon Jovi... that's June 18. right? We're doing an Airbag show on the 7th. Perhaps next time :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
About the Tube Driver:
It was a rack Chandler. It’s an abandoned version but I’ve read mr. Butler’s reviews and he recommended this one. It was manufactured in 80’s. The tube was old. I tried a new one and it sounded simillar. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just my amp – it’s a bright one, totally different from the typical brit stuff. Maybe they just didn’t like each other. :) Or maybe the unit was broken (but I doubt).
Oh, and another thing – I found one OD that absolutely blown my mind: Cornish SS-2. Perfect for me! But it’s soooo expensive! Have you tried it?
[I've only tried the Tube Driver on my Sound City, which is british and more or less identical to the Hiwatts and I guess that as with the Colorsound, this pedal is designed to push these dark, clean amps for a slightly brighter tube overdrive. I think you need that powerful, bouncy clean tone as a basis for these pedals. A typical modern American amp will sound differently I guess. I've tried the SS-2. It's a modified MXR Distortion + really with Cornish' top quality components. There are several great alternatives out there... one of them is the Skreddy Top Fuel. You'll also get similar tones with a RAT or even a Marshall Shredmaster. - Bjorn]
Glad to hear that about the Colorsound and SC combo, Bjorn. I just bought a SC 120 PA amp and am converting the preamp to an early 70’s Hiwatt DR103 4-holer. I simply cannot wait to plug in for the first time with the Colordrive in front. Ho-Chee-mamma!!
[I think you may misunderstood. What I meant was that I sometimes use the Colorsound for boosting the Maxon. That way the Maxon sounds more like the old Chandler. Still, for my main setup I basically use the Colorsound as a basis for all my sounds. I normally set it for a clean volume boost to get that warm, punchy tone and then add the Tube Driver, Large Beaver, Sun Face on top of that for harder rhythms, solos etc (not all at once of course LOL). The Colorsound is one of my all time fav pedals. The tone is just amazing... so unique. - Bjorn]
Hi!!
What doyou think about the BYOC Large Beaver. Do they sound better than the EH Big muff?
[I did some A/B testing with my Learge Beaver and a friend's EH "triangle" Big Muff and they sounded identical. I couldn't hear the difference. It should be added that there are many variations among the early Muffs because EH didn't use the same parts in every pedal but by large they're identical. IMO the Large Beaver is the best "triangle" Muff clone out there. - Bjorn]
Great clips, Bjorn!
Young Lust is one of my favorites (thank god Roger have just said that he’s working on the original Wall concerts for future video release) and you nailed it!
Your conversation with Zarek got me a bit puzzled though(especially ’cause I’m no amp expert).
Of course Hiwatts and Sound Citys are british, but when I read about “British Amps” I think about Marshalls or something like that. On the other hand, I always relate the clean Hiwatts to something more similar to Fenders – yet not so bright.
In that sense, I would think the Hiwatts have a bit more “american” tone than a “british” tone.
Or am I completely wrong?
Luciano
[Thanks Luciano! Well, both Fender and Marshall are American. Hiwatt and Sound City should be regarded as the same amp... both designed by Dave Reeves (that's another topic right there..). I guess what one means by dark sounding British amps is that they don't distort as easily as the American Equivalents. The old Marshall Plexi's were easy to overdrive but the Hiwatts stayed clean no matter what. The treble boosters was designed to make the tubes distort for the same kind of sound. The Colorsound is a step further as the pedal both boosts the volume by 30db or so and acts as an overdrive, which is different from the treble boosters... horrible grammar here but I hope you get the picture. - Bjorn]
Hm. Well, your constant praise for the Colorsound has pretty much convinced me to go for it. Or, at least, a clone of one. A slight deviation, but I’ve heard Jeff Beck used one during the 70s, do you know if there’s any truth to that? I’d like to get in on some of his “Blow by Blow” tone in addition to Gilmour’s…
The Rat, though, is rather intriguing to me. I’m considering getting a Big Muff of some sort, whenever I go about upgrading my gear, but maybe I should try the Rat as well? I’m not really looking for a tone identical to Gilmour’s, though he IS the general basis of my tone, but maybe some additional range would be a good idea? should I at least try out a Rat the next time I go into Guitar Center (basically, the Wal-Mart for guitars here in the States, in case you weren’t aware)?
Then, um, just some general questions.
I’ve been considering both adding a Bigsby to my Epiphone Dot, and putting in at least one humbucker-sized P-90, possibly two. Speaking solely from the Gilmour-tone perspective, any problems with that idea?
Secondly, I’m considering the current run of the Vox AC15 as my next amp, to replace my current Valve Jr. From the Gilmour perspective, any issue with that?
Lastly, do you think you could recommend me a volume pedal of some sort?
And to finish it all off, what the hell is this “Pickle Mod” BYOC is advertising with their Large Beaver? http://buildyourownclone.com/beaver.html ?
*fingers seize up from the typing*
[I'm not sure if Jeff Beck used one but the Colorsound was widely used by many guitarists during the 1970's. I think you'll find the RAT a bit more versatile than the Muff. I prefer the Muff, but it works well for Gilmour tones but it's not really a classic rock kind of pedal. The RAT is a better choice IMO. David's Les Pauls has P-90 pickups. The tone is like a blend of humbuckers and single coil. I don't think you should expect them to sound like a Strat tho... I'm using Ernie Ball volume pedals. They can stand a lot of abuse :) I haven't tried the Vox AC15 so I really can't tell. The Vox in general should give you nice tone. I guess the "pickle mod" is the EQ switcher allowing 4 different types of Muff tones. - Bjorn]
Bjorn, I’m a little confused about Blach Strat’s selector of today; is it still a 3-way or was it updated to a 5 way? Thank you
[It's a 3-way. - Bjorn]
Well, Marshall is in fact british. And probably the most classic british amp of all. The british sound is sometimes refered to as a “brown sound”.
It’s called a dark sound, or “brown sound”, because of the british amp’s pronounced mids. Fender amps have a kind of shimmer in the high treble area. One of the biggest difference is probably due to what output tubes where used; Marshall and Hiwatt both use El34 while Fender use 6L6.
[Oops! Sorry... Of course Marshall is British. I typed without thinking. Thanks for clearing it up. - Bjorn]
“Well, both Fender and Marshall are American. ”
In fact, Marshall is British… unless you’re talking about tone, not the actual origin, then I don’t know.
And I was wondering, don’t you think Boss DS-1 and Boss SD-1 could be good and a bit cheaper replacements for the RAT and the Tubescreamer?
[Yeah... my bad. Of course Marshall is British. I generally think that Boss pedals has a bit too much mid range and a brighter tone compared to the RAT and TS. The many mods are great tho. - Bjorn]
Well, P-90s may not sound exactly like a Strat, but it sounded shockingly close on Remember That Night, wouldn’t you agree? Really surprised me when I first watched “This Heaven” or whatever the song was….
Also, just as a general question, how much info is there floating around about David’s Gretsch Duo Jet? That guitar was always intriguing to me, and I’d love to find out more about it.
[I don't have too much info on the Gretsch. As far as I know it's a pretty standard 1950's model with Bigsby tremolo. David also used the guitar on the 2001/02 semi-acoustic performances and on his firs solo album in 1978. - Bjorn]
[I guess the “pickle mod” is the EQ switcher allowing 4 different types of Muff tones]
This is what BYOC says:
1. standard
2. flat mid
3. mid boost
4. bypassing the tone control (resulting in volume boost)
Here’s a little soundclip of me using the BYOC R.H.
I used the switch in second position (= “flat” mid)
Cheers,
Ernest
who now about the applause pedals?
i have a superd distortion i like a boss
but you know aobut applause?
thanks!
[Nope... Anyone? - Bjorn]
Here a clip (just a demo: bad timing/double tracking!) with the Triangle version
first you’ll hear only the Triangle with delay,
then thew Triangle, TD, Mistress and delay.
I believe, the triangle does sound very authentic and seems very easy to combine with other pedals…
Hey Bjorn I see you got yourself a vintage EH Deluxe Memory Man (70s one, right?)…. I was surprised to see that it’s not on your main board…why is that?
Anyway…..congrats for this new gem!
Leandro
[No, this one's from the mid 90's. It's a great sounding echo unit but I'm a bit ambivalent about it... The tone is very very nice but it has a terrible volume drop. - Bjorn]
Question to Enerst Peske :
Ernest, I have the 4 knobs version of large beaver. What position do you use to get the classic Triangle Big Muff sound, I mean the one that the previous 3 knobs version of large beaver only offers.
Thanks.
“…how much info is there floating around about David’s Gretsch Duo Jet?”
From what I can see, based on the Meltdown DVD and various pictures, David’s Duo Jet is probably a 1958 Gretsch G6128 model which has been modified with a tune-o-matic bridge mounted onto the body.
1958 was the first year Gretsch used “neo-classic” fretboard markers on the Duo Jets, aswell as replacing Dearmond pickups for Filter’trons. The tone knob was also introduced 1958 on this model. In 1959 Gretsch added a zero fret, which David’s guitar doesn’t have.
Franck Machu, you should use the first position (to the left) for the classic Triangle Muff sound.
It’s a great pedal!
Ernest
Just a thought about the ProCo Rat…I have the Digitech DF7 Distortion Factory in my board. It models 7 different distortion/overdrive pedals. It does a good job of modeling the Rat, for those of you looking for a budget Rat. I just sent a pic of my pedalboard, so you can check it out once it gets posted. Thanks for the great articles!
[Thanks for the tip David! I'll post your picture soon. - Bjorn]
Ah, thanks Johan.
Now, what would I have to do to, say, the current Electromatic Duo Jet model to get it in the same tonal ballpark as a vintage Duo Jet? If I were to model one of my guitars after David’s, it’d probably be his Gretsch (and maybe the #0001 Strat. Love the color scheme on that one), so I’m just asking out of curiosity.
What was Gretsch using beforehand, if not the Tune-O-Matic? some sort of roller bridge, maybe?
Evan:
Gretsch use floating bridges on most of their models, the G6128 included. David’s tune-o-matic seem to be mounted onto the body, just as on all Les Paul models. There’s definitely no reason to have a floating tune-o-matic as the bridge is possible to intonate without moving it.
Gretsch have used a lot of different bridges over the years; Tune-o-matic, Space control bridge (roller bridge), “rocking” bar bridge etc. Some better than others. I think tune-o-matic works best.
I really don’t like the Electromatic Pro Jet. I don’t think they have anything but the name in common with Gretsch. A big part of the Gretsch sound too me is in the Filter’tron pickups, which are a very good sounding pickup, preferably TV Jones Filter’trons.
I wouldn’t go for a vintage Duo Jet. Gretsch is owned by FMIC these days and made in Japan while Electromatic is made in Korea. I think they’re building better guitars than ever since Fender bought them.
Hi Bjorn!
Another great article!! Thanks! I just received a Rat II but I was so disapointed! Not because it’s bad, but because it’s really similar to my MI Audio Crunchbox (Have you ever tried this distortion pedal, I’d love to have your opinion about it), the Rat is maybe darker. So I just keep my Crunchbox, it seems that it’s my favourite distortion anyway :)
I plan to change my Bad Monkey for a better model so maybe a Maxon 808… I hesitate with a BD2. I search for a warm overdrive for my Fender clean channel ;)
Thanks again ;)
[Well that's basically the essence of this article, the RAT is one of the most popular distortions made and one of the most copied. The MI Crunch Box is a great sounding boutique clone. The BD-2 is one of my favourite Boss pedals but I think it should be compared to the old boosters like the Colorsound because of its bridght, glassy tone. The 808 is a slightly different pedal, much warmer and compressed. - Bjorn]
Well I think I can clear up a Couple things!!
For Ernest I highly recommend the P-94. It is a P-90 in Humbucker Size. It sorta gives you a PULSE Tone but still that wall tone or OAI. It is great I only use the one cuz I have a 500t in the bridge position.
As for The Gretsch I have an Electromatic Double Jet and I can get the exact same tone as David. They have the same mini-buckers and are very well made. One of the best purchases I’ve made!!!
Hope I cleared up some confusion.
hi bjorn,
can’t remember if I ever pointed this out to you, but as a fellow U2 head you might know anyway, the sobbat db-1 is also a very decent od/fuzz pedal, super versatile, very much between a muff and a fuzz face also. I use it on my home board, I sometimes switch around, but mostly I’m using the db-1 there, it’s great to regulate, also got for lighter od sounds if you are not using too much compression on it! just a thought…
cheers,
bernhard
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
I got me a current duo jet with filtertrons a few months ago, made of european and amercian parts, assembled in japan. although the bigsby is a bit of a nightmare to restring, especially with the lower E string, I love the guitar to bits. it’s perfectly made, and despite everything seems a little loose on the guitar at first (such as the bridge), it’s a very reliable and easy to handle thing.
b.
Hey, great clips. That Marshall amp sounds great. What mic do you use to record with GarageBand? And do you use an interface or just straight in?
thanks!
[Thanks! It's a SM58. I didn't use an interface on these... hence the noise problems. - Bjorn]
Anaon- Please email me at frails@hotmail.com if you are interested in trading your Rat for another Gilmouresque pedal. I have a few pedals to pick from.
First off, Adrian, it’s Evan. ;)
Secondly, uh, yeah, I was considering a pickup in the same vein of a P-94, called the Mean 90. supposed to be quite good for the price, since I’m on a budget and all. look it up, if you’re interested. If
Then again, I might instead put new humbuckers in my Dot, and get a Danelectro for my single-coil needs. it’s hard to say.
Also, thanks for that info on the Double Jet. I hope to have some sort of Gretsch at some point, I’ll have to check out that one. Which sort of pickups does that one have, exactly?
Amazing amazing website!
I own an Analog Man modified TS-9 (the silver mod) and I think it sounds really really good as an 808 clone, I suppose you could add it to your list.
[Thanks Romain! Glad you enjoy the site :) - Bjorn]
Great job man! Very impressive clips and nice reading. Cheers!
[Thanks! - Bjorn]
Sorry Evan lol
umm the gretsch has mini humbuckers it is part of there electromatic models.
It is for someone who doesn’t want to pay $2000 for a gretsch.
here is a link
all the electromatics sound about the same but the shape of that one gives a different sound but it is harder to play sitting down. But I get that tone from Meltdown concert perfectly!!
Dimarzio also makes a humbucker size P-90 called the Bluesbucker it looks like a humbucker but has a dummy coil to cancel noise!!
Hm, okay. Thanks for the additional information, Adrian. I’ll have to do further research….how much do those Bluesbreakers typically go for?
And, uh, Bjorn, I need your opinion on something.
I know you’ve told me in the past that the Boss BD-2 won’t work terribly well with a pedal like the Fuzz Face. However, I’ve found a BD-2 (presumably used) in a local music shop for only $50. I feel like I shouldn’t pass up on it, even if it means I lose the Fuzz Face for a while. Think it’s worth getting before someone else does?
[The BD-2 is a great pedal and a very nice sounding Colorsound-ish budget model. A modified model is to prefer but I definitely think you'll enjoy the stock one too. It's not that the BD-2 fucks up the fuzz but you'll hear that the character of the fuzz tone changes slightly and gets brighter and a bit more fuzz if you like. That's because of the buffers in the Boss pedals. Some doesn't mind or enjoys the tone while others hates it. I guess you just have to figure it out yourself. The BD-2 is very versatile and great for many things so I definitely think it's worth $50 :) - Bjorn]
Well, thanks man. I’ll get my dad to pick it up for me as soon as he can, then. I can always send it in to Keeley later on, if I find I don’t like it as is.
Maybe I’ll record some stuff once I get ahold of it.
Love the site, man. Can’t wait for the next “Early Years” article, the Meddle/Obscured by Clouds era has always held my interest…
[Thanks Evan! - Bjorn]
Picked up a Rat today for $50. It’s one of the early versions with the LM308 IC in it. Its a little noisy but what distortion/fuzz isn’t. Great harmonics with this pedal! I’ve got the modded GE-7 behind it cuz the bass is def lacking without. With? A mandolin and one picture have already fallen off of the wall. Oh the neighbors will love thee!
[Ha ha! That's what rock n roll is all about :) - Bjorn]
Hi,
i love your site……it’s amazing and Gilmour for me is a God
I am an italian guy and i have one Fender american stratocaster with emg dg-20 and my desire is reply the Gilmour sound of pulse live.
I need for 2 pedals in this moment:
1) a real pedal distorsion for have a suond like a comfortably numb (SOLO), sorrow……..
2) a pedal for have a clean creamy sound like a shine on (SOLO), another brick in the wall (SOLO), coming back to life….
basically 2 pedals for have 2 different sounds for a solos
I hope for your answer and i am thankful for this one
Sorry for my English but i belive you understand my question
Thank you very mouch, bye bye
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) I think that both the RAT and the Maxon is the answer to your question. They'll give you the tone you need and versatile enough to cover most of David's tones. If you want to take it up a notch, I suggest a Big Muff (I recommend the BYOC Large Beaver) and a BK Tube Driver. - Bjorn]
[That’s because of the buffers in the Boss pedals] Bjorn.
… I absolutely agree! I did remove my BOSS CS3 and now my Triangle BYOC can “communicate” directly to the pups of my strat. The Muff feels much more interactive and most of all: sweet classic Gilmour sound!
My only BOSS pedal left on my board is the GE7, at the end of the chain (before my Delay). I did bypass it and didn’t notice any difference when the GE7 is in the chain (when OFF).
So I guess it’s a big issue not having a BOSS buffer before a vintage FUZZ/distortion like the Muff.
By the way, is this GE7 mod really a big deal? I don’t use extreme settings with it. …it does provide a nice finishing touch (using the Gilmour settings).
[I haven't tried a modded GE7 so I really don't know... I stopped using EQs with my main board because having either the Colorsound PB or the Tube Driver on for any tone does the same job I think. - Bjorn]
Great article. I have a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive (TS808 clone) and I’m absolutely happy with the way it sounds. Great for bluesy leads and ryhtems.
Thanks for the article !
The Rat is an overdrive but can be used as a distortion, and I would like to know which one to choose between a Fuzz Face and a Rat (I already have a green sovtek “triangle knobs” Big Muff) ?
I love David’s sound but I want a thin disto pedal (the Big Muff is a good one but with a too “big” sound) to play all kind of stuff.
Cheers.
[ I wouldn't say that the RAT is an overdrive. It's a distortion it the truest sense... You can't really compare a Fuzz Face with the RAT. Although the RAT originates from a Fuzz Face they're two different beasts. As I say in the article, I think that the RAT is one of the most versatile distortions out there and you should be able to cover most of David's lead tones and any other musical style. Cheers! - Bjorn]
hey bjorn, evan. re. the byoc pickle mod.
it doesnt refer to the switching, it refers to a mod that gives it waaaay more distortion: ala smashing pumpkins. not recomended for gilmour tones is what i read at the forum. the forum over there is really helpful, ive posted there a bit.
also are you just using your in-built mac microphone to record all this Bjorn? no mic or anything? or plugging giutar into your mac? (i dunno how its done haha) – oh yeh, really nice playing as always. very ummm gilmourish… haha
[Yep, it's the built in mic and camera. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, the RAT settings you described are they mend for the original RAT or for the RAT 2??
[Erm... Both I guess. They're not that different. Depends on your pickups and whether you use a booster/overdrive with it or not. You might want to roll off the gain a bit if you're using EMGs or other hot pickups. - Bjorn]
Hey bjorn hows things,so then off i went and got that rat,oh yes and that maxon,having much fun with this pedal lark i can tell you.Cheers for your time and recomemdations my friend although i still donr know to much about wahat im doing im getting hours of fun out of it.I have also aquired one mistress delux,dynacomp and that giga boss delay thing,only because it lets me dial in the delay timings,a godsend wouldnt have had a clue otherwise,think im getting his bleeding pedal bug though as am wanting to try that nova thingy now hehe,and to think a couple of months ago i thought you lot were all mad.i picked up an oldish strat 86 i think or 84 whit colour,maple neck from that japan place.Love it…..for now hehe.So heres the tip im after,bloody noisey when alls on i can tell ya,hiss hum you name it,if ts not ment to be there i can tell you it is,any tips on how to reduce this noise,i know my playing is not good so i get loads of finger scraping noises and string notes when i touch them when bending i gotta expect that but bloody hell are these pedal things ment to amplifi every thing i do,so will this noise reduction pedal thingy actually help as ive noticed there isnt one on any of your boards,any thoughts .Keep this site going bjorn its great.Good luck to you
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you find my site useful... even if it costs you a lot of money :) Noise is caused by a number of things. Vintage style single coil pickups are noisy by nature. You can shield the inside of the guitar with some copper foil, which will reduce some of the noise. Cheap instrument and patch cables are often the biggest source of noise. I always recommend spending a little extra on some good quality shielded cables. When you're using a lot of pedals you're bound to experience some noise... even when they're off. Using high gain distortions and compressors will enhance noise and especially when you combine them. You should also make sure that the power cables aren't touching the instruments cables and that you don't have too many pedals on the same power loop. Also, if you're playing at home you'll get interference from all kinds of things, - mobile phones, TV, radio, lights, computers etc... Using a noise suppressor will take away some noise but it's not an ideal solution because it will also drain some signal and cut some sustain. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!
on my board at the moment i have a rat2 and im using the throbak overdrive boost which at times i switchout with my actual coloursound powerbooster/overdriver and a keeley ts9 plus modded tubescreamer…they sound great together but.. i also have a little big muff reissue and a ronsound modded big muff…i was thinking about puting one of the muffs on my board along with the rat2 and if so which one?…i also on the other hand have a BOSS GE7 boosting the low frequencies for the rat2… so is it really necessary to put the big muff on the board along with the rat2 or not? and also if there is anyway possible to give me a good setting for the BOSS GE7 to tone the rat up to big muff standards could you please send me somthing to show me the proper settings on the GE7 or try to tell me the settings?
thanks alot! you have been of great help to me in my gilmour tone quest. :) i would SERIOUSLY be lost without your site!
-hunter
[I think it's up to you to decide whether you want both the Muffs and the RAT on your board. If you think they all need to be there then go for it. I often recommend the RAT if you're only playing at home because it much easier to get great tones with it compared to a Muff, which usually needs a cranked tube amp to reach its full potential.
I can't really suggest any EQ settings because the nature of such an effect is to adjust certain frequencies depending on your rig - guitar/pickups, amp and effects. You might also realize that some situations requires more adjustment that others, like playing at home compared to on a large stage. You need to find the settings and frequencies that fits your rig. In general I think that the RAT needs more bass and a Muff could do with some mids for a typical PULSE tone. Please read more about creating your tone in this article. Thanks for your support! - Bjorn]
hey bjorn just read all your pickup info so got your reccomendations mate.still would like to know if anyone knows about that noise problem though,cheers again
hey bjorn hope your good,regaurding noise problems and picking up interference from every bloody thing else i was hoping some one out there could help.im living in sweden and the plugs have only two pins so i take it that means there is no direct earth,when i put my finger on the meteal plug of a patch cable and then touch the radiater all the hum hiss and crap disappears.now is there any way of overcomng this problem saftley surely i cant be the only one to have this problem.anyone came across the same problem.heres a bag of worms im gonna be searching for a reasonably priced amp for the bedroom,any ideas.say between 150 to 300 pounds.by the way nice comfortably numb tuturiol that bjorn.ever thought about a pedal use tutoriol,now im sure that would be popular.what do you recon,todays tutorial the numb solo tone.all the best mate and thanks
[Well, I'm no expert on noise but I think the best way to eliminate noise is to use shielded cables, including patch cables, shield the inside of your guitar and the pickups should be waxed or potted. Don't play in a room with TVs, radios, computers etc and turn off your mobile phone. Be careful with which pedals you combine and keep in mind that the more effects you add the more hum and hiss you'll get. It's hard to get around that... even with the most expensive gear. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
And yet another question… if I’m boosting my RAT should the volume on my TS9 be louder than the RAT? I’m not totally sure how to actually “boost” it. Also, have you ever thought of expanding the webpage to include other artists like Clapton, Hendrix etc?
[Clapton who? Nope, this is a Gilmour site... How the volume should be set depends on what tone you're looking for. For a bright Animals/Island kind of tone I'd set the RAT to around 2:00 and the TS at 3:00. For a warmer PULSE tone you can roll off the TS volume to around 1:00. Try different settings and decide on what sounds best for your rig. - Bjorn]
Wow thanks for the great review and awesome playing of yours really impressive!!!
I don’t play guitar that long but I love the sounds of Pink Floyd and try to play as much as my ability to play allows me until now.
I just have one question this more a general understanding question than technical but if I understand right what you say in your article you say that the combination of a tube screamer and Big muff or rat give a very power full combination. So it’s either a Big Muff or a rat not both?
Oh and one more question is the Ibanez TS9 really that differentiable from the Maxxon or the TS808? it is really a lot cheaper so I am just asking myself if it is worth spending a little more?
thanks for your help!!!
I love your website,
Jan
[Use only one distortion at a time, - Muff + overdrive or RAT + overdrive. The TS9 is very similar to the Maxon. - Bjorn]
Hi, Bjorn — I just bought a US ‘57 Reissue strat (I’m thinking about getting the CS ‘69 pickups) and a Fender Blues Junior amp. I primarily play at home in my apartment (and don’t want to blow my neighbors heads off). Which effects pedals should I be looking at: 1) BYOC Large Beaver and Colorsound Power Boost or 2) the RAT and the Maxon? Thanks for the help.
[I'd definitely go for the RAT/Maxon combo. It's not impossible to get great tones with a Muff and Colorsound but they tend to get a bit too agressive and boomy for a smaller rig. The RAT and Maxon will produce great tone no matter what... - Bjorn]
Fantastic article as always Bjorn, really good read, nice tone and playing in your clips also!
Phil
[Thanks! - Bjorn]
Hi, I have a Fender Stratocaster Highway One from 2006 and I just got a Fender Twin Reverb Reissue. The tone from Gilmour I like the more is from the live at Gdansk. I can play loud with my amp something la 5 if it can tells you how loud it is. I’m looking for a fuzz and an overdrive. You said that non true-bypass or buffer pedal fucks up the fuzz. I’ve read that it’s only for the germanium fuzz so I don’t know who to trust. But if the buffer pedals fucks silicon fuzz face then I don’t think the Maxon would be a good idea. If so do you think the Fulltone OCD wich is true-bypass would be good for me? (I can’t afford a Tube Driver) And for the fuzz I’ve heard good thing about the dunlop Hendrix Fuzz (not the red one the like blue one) wich is a reproduction of the BC108 fuzz face. What do you think about it?
[All vintage style fuzz units will be affected by buffered pedals. Germanium transistors are a bit more sensitive but the silicons are no better. As goes for vintage style overdrives and boosters too really. My Colorsound Power Boost can't stand buffered pedals. The OCD will work much better than the Maxon although it's a slightly different sound. You should also check out the BYOC Overdrive and BBE Green Screamer, which both are true bypass clones of the Maxon/Ibanez 808. - Bjorn]
Well, regarding Antoine’s issue, isn’t the Maxon true-bypass???
But I have yet another question for you, Bjorn.
It’s about the Boss HM-2.
On About Face gear page you say that “it sounds very much like a RAT with a classic Marshall distortion. Very fat and compressed”.
But you haven’t mentioned the HM-2 on this article, neither on the new Buyer’s Gear Guide, as an alternative to the Rat.
I know you couldn’t list everything on the buyer’s guide, but what do you think about it?
I must say that I’ve just got an used HM-2 a couple of weeks ago and I’m finding it very easy to achieve good tones with it.
Cheers,
Luciano.
[Nope. The Maxon is buffered. The HM-2 has indeed a tone similar to the RAT but I do prefer the RAT. The HM-2 can be a bit too bright and hars I think without an overdrive placed behind it. Another reason I didn't mention it is the fact that it's deleted. Anyway, cool pedal. - Bjorn]
Hi, I’ve got another question for you. You said that if I put the Maxon wich is a buffered pedal after the fuzz it’s not good. But in another artical you suggest to put a buffered delay pedal a the end. Won’t it fuck the fuzz??
[Well, yes but not all rigs have a fuzz. I was talking generally. Fuzz units are some strange creatures and they tend too loose much of their character when you introduce buffered pedals. Some goes better than others tho. As an example - the Sun Face that I have works nicely with the Japanese Boss pedals and the Ibanez Tube Works DE-7. However, it can't stand newer Boss pedals, vintage style Ibanez and Maxon. - Bjorn]
Well, I guess you’re right. The OD-808 isn’t true bypass.
But the Maxon AD-9 (similar to the Ibanez TS-9) is true bypass, according to Maxon site and AnalogMan’s faq.
That’s why I got confused.
Cheers.
Luciano.
Hi there, I have recently got a BYOC large beaver as per your recomendation, however, i am not sure which spec to do it as, i am trying to re create the Gdansk tone, and i wondered what u think which spec would re-create that tone the best
Thanks in advance
Phil
[David mainly used the G2 and P1 on the tour and a triangle Big Muff that was mainly used on Echoes. The closest match would be a "ram's head" clone. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! I was wondering, on the B.Y.O.C. what is the main difference in the triangle and ram’s head version? I can’t decide which one I like more!
[The triangle was the first Muff released in '71. It has a brighter tone and more sustain compared to the '73 ram's head, which has more gain. David used the ram's head on Animals, DG78, Wall, Final Cut but either will give you a great tone. Personally I prefer the triangle. - Bjorn]
Bjorn, is it true that by changing Circuits at the TS7 you can get the sound of a 808?
Cheers, Gabriel!
[I have no clue... probably... but they're very similar anyway. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Have you tried the new Jekyll and Hyde V2 pedal? i hear that its very good, and if you have, do you think that it could cover some of the later David tones? Its 2 pedals in one, a OD based on the OD-808 and a distortion of some kind – and in England, its all that for the cost of less than a TS-808, just wondered what your views on the pedal could be if you have tried tested it in the process of making your new buyers gear guide, which i must say, is fantastic
Thanks for any help you give me
Phil
[Hi Phil! I haven't tried it... Heard many positive comments but I really can't tell. - Bjorn]
Can someone enlighten me on the proper hookup of the RAT to the OD8808 to the guitar and amp?
Thanks,
Jess
[guitar > rat > od808 > amp. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I there a specific reason why you chose the OD808 instead of the OD-9, which, according to Maxon’s web site, is sonically indentical to the OD808, but has a true bypass switch instead of a FET switch?
Cheers,
Holger
[No specific reason really. I bought it used... It's on my backup board with a mix of true bypass and buffered pedals so it really doesn't matter. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Can you tell me what settings you would recommend for the lead in “Comfortably Numb” for a Rat and an OD808? Or do you recommend a Big Muff in the mix or somthing else? I’m using a 10 watt Hiwatt amp.
Thanks,
Jesse
[Settings depends very much on the pickups and the guitar in general as well as the amp and its settings... among other things. I usually set mine like this: RAT all knobs at about 2:00 o'clock - OD808 gain 10:00, tone 9:00 and volume at 3:00. Use this as a reference and find a setup that sounds OK for your rig. - Bjorn]
Very, very intresting article, Bjorn!!
I like a lot he sound of the RAT, it’s a fat distorion and very versitile. Combined with a Tube Driver, it must scream.
I have another of my annoying questions (xD):
Does that RAT sound like an Marshall overdrive, or you can make a Marshall sound like the RAT?
Thanks!
[Glad you enjoyed the article :) The RAT was originally based on the tone you get from a germanium Fuzz Face and humbucker pickups. Kind of a hot wired Fuzz Face, although not technically based on it. The RAT is in the same tone family as the MXR Distortion + and the Marshall Shredmaster pedals and the Marshall JCM 800 amps. I have a small 50w 5210 Marshall combo at home, which is the transistor version of the JCM800 series and I'm having a hard time hearing the differences between its gain channel and the RAT. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
First of all I want to say thank you so much for this site. I’ve been quite obsessed with it the past couple months. I started a band not too long ago that is going in the more Pink Floyd/King Crimson/ Mahavishnu Orchestra vein and its really been a watershed for my playing. I’ve always been all about amp distortion, but my tastes and understandings of tone are changing now thanks to your in depth site.
I am trying to use pedals now instead of amp distortion as I want a pristine clean sound as well (my Mesa .50 cal has a unified eq, it sounds fantastic as a clean amp btw). I am starting to slowly amass my new pedal based rig and I recently bought a maxon 808. I am pairing that with a Rocktron Blackjack distortion/booster pedal for now and I have a couple questions about volume adjustment as well as an in general question for how to use an od/dist setup.
First off, I am trying to figure out how accurately set my volumes with my other guitarist who for now uses his amp distortion. The trouble is that I basically have three different volumes to adjust now whenever we need to turn down or anything (the clean amp volume, the OD, and the pedal dist). So without pissing off the rest of my band mates, what is the best way to set all three accurately on the fly so that they are at unity volume?
My second question is how do you use your boosters/od in general? Do you always have the OD/booster on for a dirty sound and turn on the distortion only for leads? Or do you have the distortion as your crunch tone and then use the OD/booster for leads?
Thanks so much!
-Bryce
[I think you should set the amp volume to the desired level and find the unity level from the two stomboxes. Or get a volume pedal. I base all my sounds on one booster or overdrive, either a clean volume boost or regular overdrive depending on the song and tone that I want. Then I add the distortion for solos. Clean volume boost + distortion = smooth punchy distortion. Overdrive + distortion = aggressive tone with lots of sustain. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I just had the chance to compare the OD808 and the OD-9 by Maxon. They are nearly identical sonically, but – to my surprise – not completely! To my ears, the OD808 sounds just a bit smoother, rounder, and more open than the OD-9, which is slightly grittier. Contrary to what is said on Maxon’s website, both pedals have the same amount of gain.
All in all, the difference between them is very small, but I actually like the OD808 a tiny better, even though it doesn’t have a true bypass. Both are great sounding pedals, though.
I also tested the Maxon D&S and I absolutely love it! It produces really smooth, slightly aggressive transistor distortion that never sounds thin or too fuzzy. With an overdrive behind it becomes even smoother. It sounds great with a tube amp and it is one of the really few distortions that my ears can stand in front of a transistor amp.
I think that the D&S would definitely deserve a place on your list of Big Muff replacements. I even like it better than the Skreddy Top Fuel because the distortion of the D&S sounds more complex.
I can highly recomment all three pedals! (I should probably add that I’m in no way affiliated with Maxon – I’m just enthusiastic about these pieces of gear)
Keep on with your great work on this site! I hope your Richard Wright tribute was a success; I would love to read something about it… (maybe including some sounds?)
Best wishes,
Holger
[Thanks for the info Holger! I agree that Maxon pedals have a great tone. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!
love the site!
in your opinion…i have a Little Big Muff reissue and a RAT2…i am boosting one of them with a BD2 and a keeley TS9/808 plus mod…if you were to pick just one to keep on the board for a strickly all around gilmourish tone which one would you put on the board the LBM or the RAT2?
thanks alot!
[Depends entirely on your amp and pickups... and your ears. Both pedals can sound wonderful on the right setup and like crap on another rig. Personally I think the RAT is much more versatile than the Big Muff, but it can also be a bit dull and average. - Bjorn]
Personally I just picked up a Fulltone OCD pedal and love the sound of it. It’s listed as a overdrive/distortion unit as clarified on the box.
hey Bjorn,
I got the vintage S model assembly fitted on my lite ash strat and damn it sound Goooooooood.
I wanted to ask you tht u made ur bridge float a bit.So could u explain wat to do after i tighten the screws down to the plate.
Plz lemme know…..
thanks & regards,
Anmol
[Mine is slightly floating... I can't pull it upwards but there's a 2-3mm gab when you see it from behind. I've tightened all the 6 plate screws and adjusted the two claw screws in the back all the way until the plate is flat on the body. Then I loosen them until the arm feels as smooth as possible. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!I’ve just bought the hartman distortion (rat-clone) cos’ it seemed to me really interesting but I’m still waiting it to arrive and I was wondering what you think about it. Have you ever heard it?I’m in the perpetual research of a gilomurish-tone so it would be great if the hartman can nail it. Anyway thx for the great work you do cos you allow lot of people (me too :P) to feel like a little gilmour, even if only for the time of a solo. You’re great. Sorry for my terrible english but I’m Italian.
Best wishes,
Gae.
[Thanks for your kind words Gae! I've never tried the Hartman but it's based on the RAT with some new mods and I think it will be perfect for many of David's tones. The RAT is one of my favorite distortion pedals. Extremely versatile. Let us know what you think when you've tried it! - Bjorn]
Well Thank you again for your time. At one time I had the BK Butler TD and changed the tube and placed the JJ 12AU7 inside. Very warm sound but sold the dam thing. I always check your videos out on youtube and I like the boss bd-2 sound with your maxon od808 just sounds fantastic. I ordered the analogman Boss BD-2 because I was not feeling Keeleys Mod sounded to brittle and weak. So my question is I love pulse era and On an Island sound just amazing sound. If you have extra time to read this is my setup any suggestions please let me know. 2= T-rex Replicas Delays, Absoultley Analog Ratzo, AA GREEN RUSSIAN, MAXON 808, AA FIST, Howard Davis Mod Deluxe ElectRic Mistress, Boss CE-2, NANO PHASER, Boss TU-2. I love Absolutley Analog pedals thanks for the info on your website. I play through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.
PS Do I need a Boss GE-7?
[I think you should be able to get a nice OAI tone with this setup. What kind of guitar/pickups do you use? Try these settings on your amp: bass 50%, treble 50-60%, mids 40%. The BD-2 and Fist are great alternatives for the Tube Driver and I think I'd go for the Green Russian as the main distortion unit. You could also use the Maxon for smoother PULSE type of overdrives. I don't think EQs are a must but check out this article for some tips. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
I had a question about the BK butler TD with the bias knob. I know you have the standard model but I was wondering if you had any experience with the bias knob model? Basically all I want to know is if I were to get the bias knob one, could I still get it to sound like the standard one?
Thanks,
Bryce
[I haven't tried the one with bias control but I think it's the same as the standard just that you can adjust the amount of gain with the bias trim pot. I would imagine that setting the bias at either 0 or 10 will make sound as the standard. - Bjorn]
Bjorn-
Any thoughts about whether the pick-ups on an Eric Johnson Strat will work for a “Gilmour” sound or are the too “hot”?
I appreciate the work you have put into this site.
Rick
[I don't have any experience with those... Anyone? - Bjorn]
I have the DG-20 emg set could not resist and I really dig them. Thanks for your help again, by any chance have you ever tried the Demeter Fuzz-1 ? I listen to some clips and read reviews seems to be a nice alternative to ss3/G2 with some stacking and tweaking with other pedals of course. -Thanks Again-
[I've tried the Demeter fuzz a couple of times. Great pedal and very versatile. I think it's a bit too "fuzzy" to be compared with the SS3 but it can produce some nice Fuzz Face/G2 sounds. Check out this review. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Great content, as usual. Quick question for you on pedal order:
I have a RAT 2, Maxon OD808, and a EH Soul Preacher Compressor. Can you tell me your suggested order of arrangement?
I saw your earlier suggestion of (guitar->RAT->OD808->amp) but I’m wondering where the compressor should go in this chain. I’m guessing before the RAT?
Thanks a lot,
Marc
[Hi Marc. I recommend this order: guitar > comp > rat > od808 > amp. Please see this article for more basic tone tips. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Rick / Bjorn,
I own an EJ Strat and I would say it’s fine for producing Gilmour-like tones, especially the more vintage 70s-era tones. It’s definitely not going to be mistaken for David’s EMG Strat, but the guitar is actually amazingly flexible in terms of the type of sounds you can get out of it.
Besides that, it plays like a dream. I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone considering it.
Marc
Bjorn-
I would like to achieve a gilmourish tone that was heard on the recent live recordings (Remember that Night, Live in Gdansk, and On an Island) I have an EH Big Muff, in your opinion, which overdrive, or other pedals will I need in combination with the Muff, to achieve that sound?
Thanks for all the work you’ve put into this site.
[That depends very much on what guitar/pickups and amp you have. Let me know and I'll try to help. - Bjorn]
Have you ever tried the boss OD-20? its one of those twin pedals and three of the simulations are a RAT, a Big Muff and a Fuzz Face. If so, do you think the simulations sound accurate?
[Hei Eirik! I don't own the OD20 my self but from memory I remember that the Muff sim was very similar to the new US model. Perhaps even a little closer to the green Sovtek. The RAT sounded great although I couldn't hear much difference between the RAT and the Distortion + sims. The Fuzz is based on the germanium Fuzz Face. - Bjorn]
Well I have a Epiphone Les Paul Standard w/ Bigsby w/ stock pickups,(isn’t the best for Gilmour tone) and a Canadian made Traynor 40w tube amp, which is similiar to many Fender tube amps, I appreciate the help!
[I think I'd go for a Tube Screamer. Ibanez TS9 or Maxon OD808. They're a bit more versatile for this kind of setup than a Tube Driver. You might also want to check out a Robert Keeley Boss BD-2. - Bjorn]
Hey, great website! I was looking at getting a Rat 2, but on Robert Keeley’s website he says the latest ones getting made in China aren’t great at all; have you tried any Rat 2 models produced in 2008 with a serial # above 300,000? Notice if there is a lack of quality distortion compared to other models?
[I haven't tried the new models no. I recommend getting a Kelley version though. - Bjorn]
I have a Marshall JVM 210 with a 1960A Lead Cab. I am trying to decide which muff I should get. I am deciding between: BYOC Triangle and Ram’s head, Sovtek muff, or an actual vintage ram’s head. Any suggestions?
[I've never tried the 210 but set it up for the cleanest tone possible and I think I'd go for a Sovtek preferably a Ciwil War or green model. - Bjorn]
So if the new models are lesser in quality, I was wondering if the MXR distortion 3 would be a better choice? That one’s getting rave reviews.
[Haven't tried it. Anyone? - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, i really learned alot from this very informative website. Anyway, i have a question: Which should come first in the BD-2/OD808 setup??? the BD-2 or the Maxon OD-808???
[Thanks for your kind words! I like to have the BD-2 setup for a clean volume boost placed first since it has much more bass that the OD808. You'll get the warmt and fat lower end from the BD-2 and the crisp smooth overdrive from the OD808. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! Thanks for the response. There is a Red Army overdrive muff in Civil War clothes in mint condition on ebay. Is that the same as the green muff and the civil war muff and is it worth going for? Once again I have the JVM 210.
[I've never tried the Red Army model but I assume it's pretty close to both the Civil War and Green models. It's the very first Muff reissue Mike Matthews made after closing down Electro Harmonix and starting Sovtek sometime around 1990. The pedal is very rare so I wouldn't hesitate! - Bjorn]
On the serious budget end, I picked up a Danelectro Cool Cat Fuzz..for only £40!..you can get them for around $29! in U.S. metal casing..true bypass..and a great thick lead tone thats very articulate and responsive..been using it alot live…gonna check out the Cool Cat Vibe soon!
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Unfortunately the Red Army Overdrive was bid up to $300 and the reserve was not met :( . Luckily though, there was a green muff that was in pristine condition that I went for:) .
[As far as I know there's not much difference between the two. I love my green Muff! - Bjorn]
Check this out..anyone ever heard or used one????
Hi ! First of all, thanks a lot for this wonderfull website.
I don’t see the MXR GT-OD (overdrive) in your website ans I tried it in a shop. I found it rather good and I “compared” it to TS808, TS7/9 and Maxon OD-808 thanks to Youtube, even if it’s not the best way. Does anyone know if MXR match/correspond with Gilmour sound ?
[I've never tried the GT-OD so I can't tell. In general, MXR is definitely a match for David's sounds. His 70's boards included a Dynacomp and Phase 90 and he has been using MXR delay rack units since 1977. The Carbon Copy makes a great analog delay for those Binson sounds and the Distortion + goes well with some of the milder distortions and overdrives around Delicate and PUSLE. The new Fuzz is excellent for that Pompeii tone. - Bjorn]
Hi there!
im a big fan of the web, is really cool to make a site like this.
i just came to give you a small tip on a clone of the pro co rat.
I own a carl martin crush zone which in my little experience sound pretty much the same, i would try to upload a video to give an example
I dont know how much it cost in dollars but in my country is about a hundrer dollars
good luck and keep up the good work :)
[Thanks for your kind words and for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi, Thank you for this fantstic site! I have a question for you.. Have you ever tried the Fulltone OCD?? What do you think about this pedal? Can I use this pedal like a boost for a BYOC Large Beaver? Thank you,Bye
[The OCD is very similar to the Colorsound Powerboost. I'm not sure if it's actually based on it but they're very similar. It has a nice range from clean volume boost to warm overdrive. Works very well as a booster for distortions etc. - Bjorn]
Hello! Thanks for this article.
It’s know that, in order to get a natural overdrive from a tube amp with a booster (not an O/D pedal), we need to crack it.
Is this still true when we use power attuators to put the amp on the maximum volume wthout blowing windows away?
Thanks by advance! Bye.
[I don't have much experience with power attenuators but the whole idea is to lower the volume without loosing any tone or character. However, the tone you get from an amp isn't just the tubes it's also very much from the speakers and the dynamics caused by volume. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
I was wondering if u could advise me on an overdrive pedal. Currently I am using a Fender EJ strat, all stock, going into an SD-1,AA Green Russian, and MXR Carbon Copy, all going into the front of a Fender Deluxe Reissue. I am looking to upgrade the SD1 as I feel its not the best overdrive pedal in the world. I am looking for something that could cover The Wall and especially DSOT and PULSE. I have narrowed it down to 2 pedals, both being roughly in the same price range – the Maxon OD 808, and the Keeley Blues Driver, both of which, I feel are very good pedals, however, I am unable to choose between, I am thinking about the OD808 though. Also, have you had any experience with the EJ guitar? I find that the neck PU is very bassy and boomy with the Green Russian, and am hoping that the OD can balance that out.
Thanks in Advance
Phil
[First of all I don't think you should base your pickups on using the neck with a Big Muff. That rarely sounds good so I'd use mostly the bridge for pedals as bassy as the Muff. The Maxon is perhaps the most versatile of the two and it can cover most of David's tones - PULSE especially with boosted mid range. However, the BD-2 is a much better choice for David's ealier tones and the modified version do have a much more balanced tone that could fit nicely as a substitute for David's Tube Driver. Based on the amp you're using I think I'd go for the BD-2. - Bjorn]
Hi, Just got a Crowther Hot Cake fantastic overdrive pedal..great if used as a boost too! also using Danelectro Cool Cat Vibe check that out…it only cost me £40 new!!..does Gilmour..and Hendrix!! :)
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Thanks for your reply – which modded BD 2 do u suggest i go for? Keeley or Analogueman?
Thanks
[I like the Keeley. It's a bit warmer than the Analogman. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
Thankyou for your wonderful site, I have very much enjoyed your insights!
I have been looking into getting an overdrive or booster for a while now. I am a student on a budget, but I don’t want to compromise! I was looking at both the keeley and analogman true bypass modded tube screamers, but could not decide. The keeley has a more balanced eq with less mid range hump and the drive can be turned lower for a better clean boost. However analogman says changing the eq in this way loses a lot of the tube screamer character. You can get the analogman with an extra “bad bob” boost circuit inside but it is even more expensive and looks a bit weird.
I’ve been looking for a “third way” and I think I may have found it in the new byoc overdrive 2 kit. This can be built to ts-808 specs and has a switch to change the eq from normal mid hump to balanced to fat, a switch to change between 3 different clipping modes, and internal trim pots to change the drive range to be stock like the analogman or extended like the keeley! It even has an extra independant boost circuit and being a kit is much cheaper too!
What do you think Bjorn, is this too good to be true?
The boost circuit can be built as either a silicon or MOSFET circuit. It is possible to run the MOSFET circuit at 18V too. Which would you recommend for boosting a big muff/RAT or fuzz? I know it is not quite a colorsound powerboost but it is a start right?
Thanks for your help!
[I must agree with Analogman that the Keeley mod takes away much of the Tube Screamer character. There's a lot of pedals copying the screamer but the very essence of teh screamer is the mid range - like it or not. The BYOC kits are very good and as you say the overdriver is an excellent option for a straight clone with several cool features. Just be sure to know what you do if you decide to solder your self or get a preassmbled pedal. There's a link on the BYOC site to a licensed dealer. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, thanks for your reply!
Good to hear you agree with analogman, I was close to getting the keeley at one point but I’m glad I didn’t as I don’t want to lose that classic tone. I’m sure it is still a great pedal but not for me.
I was wondering if you had an opinion on the choice of MOSFET or silicon boost for the BYOC overdrive. This is a new feature of the kit since this January. I presume it’s similar to two of the options on their triboost kit (the third being a germanium rangemaster clone). Which would you recommend for boosting a big muff?
Thanks again!
[It's apples and oranges really. Both works fine and it's not a huge difference between the two. Mosfet has a bit more mdi range and silicon has a brighter tone like the Colorsound Powerboost. In terms of a modern style overdrive pedal, the mostfet would be more fitting I guess. - Bjorn]
Hello again Bjorn!
Well I built the byoc overdrive 2 and am very happy. It is very nice to be able to change the eq with a switch.
I built the boost to silicon specs for the brighter more powerboost-like tone. I must say it sounds really good boosting my muff, now I can see where Mr. Gilmour is coming from.
I like it so much I am thinking of getting a proper power boost. I live in England and I popped into Macari’s the other day but they are now selling for £169! I’m sure it is worth it but it’s lucky you got yours when you did!
I am wondering what your reasons would be for recommending one of these reissues over say the Throbak Overdrive Boost clone. Surely as a straight clone it should sound identical? I am no expert however! It just seems a good option with it’s smaller case and switchable additional features.
[Well, getting a real Colorsound is definitely worth it but the best clone I've come across is the VintageFX Colordrive, which also features the master volume knob for more boost. The Absolutely Analog is a straight clone of the original Powerboost without the master volume. The Throbak is also good but I'd still go for the VintageFX. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
First of all, thanks so much for your amazing site and all these precious information you share. You do fantastic job, thank you !
I’m have the Throbak overdrive boost and I’m a little bit disapointed with it, sound is very “agressive”, especially when when gain is set high: I have difficulties to describe it, but it seems there are “bad” harmonics (see this guy at 1min45 for an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPoLt89onkI ). Finaly, I’m not able to color the the BYOC large beaver I have before the throbak. I don’t have a colorsound so I can’t compare with it.
When I put my maxon808 after the Throbak, the sound is very sweet, but I lose the flexibility that the throbak give me with its treble and bass setting.
Do you think it’s due to the pedal itself ? Can it come from my amps (Fender Super reverb reissue, so with 10 inches speakers) ? I have to precise I play at home so with “home level” (to loud for my wife… ;-)).
Thanks Bjorn,
And “longue vie a Gilmourish”
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you like my site :) I've only tried the ThroBak a couple of times but it's pretty close to the original Colorsound. What kind of guitar/pickups do you have? As you can hear on the YouTube clip, the pedal sounds a lot different compared to David's tones with humbuckers and other hot pickups. The Fender amp you have might also be a bit too small for the tones you want. There's nothing wrong with the pedal but to get that fat, smooth clean boost David has on many of the songs he used it you really need an amp with as much headroom as possible... which is described in the article. I mainly use my Colorsound as a clean boost with the bass at 12:00, gain around 11:00 and the treble at 9:00. The master on the side of the pedal is set around 50-60%. This should produce a nice loud clean boost with a slight crunch. Adjust the gain for more or less overdrive. As I've explained in the article, a Boss BD2 (preferably modified for a better tone) or similar might be a better choice for smaller amps and lower volume. - Bjorn]
Thanks for your reply,
I use Fender CS60 strats so pickups are the stock ones. Maybe too boomy for David’s tone (I didn’t try the 69 or 54). Concerning my Super Reverb, as you say it may be not appropriate as it quickly reaches its natural overdrive zone (for a very nice bluesy sound !).
Ok, let’s keep the Throbak at home… and find a good”gilmourish” amp.
Thanks again
PS: great article on “Dogs”, please watch my version (and my pig).
[Thanks for sharing the clip! Nice playing and tone. If I can give you a tip you need to work on your timing a bit but all in all very good! - Bjorn]
Hello again Bjorn,
Just to let you know I went for a reissue Power Boost from Macari’s in the end.
Thought you might like to know that the man in the shop said they had just started making it in a new version these last few months. They have changed the circuit to include an additional preamp transistor, presumeably like in the throbak, although it can’t be turned off.
This worried me at first after what you’d said about changing a super simple circuit. However when the man said they’d done this redesign “for Dave Gilmour” I was reassured!
Haven’t had time to explore it fully but will be having fun with it this week!
[Interesting info! Thanks! - Bjorn]
I have read all the above with interest but I do need help.
I am trying to get a Gilmour tone, I have just purchased a Line 6 Flextone 111 amp and have tried to get some form of distorted or overdriven Gilmourish tone with no luck.
The amp gives a very good clean tone with lots of reverb and delay choice buy I have a real headache with the distorted thing-I tried a BYOC big muff and it just sounds a big mess.I did try the Behringer vintage overdrive and that gives some good tone but nothing like what I am after.Can you or any visitors to the site help.Just a note on the Web site ,ITS FANTASTIC thanks for all your hard work.
Regards
Steve B
[Hi Steve! Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) I'm not familiar with the Flextone. How's your settings? If you're using pedals with it you should clean channel only and use different combinations of overdrive and distortion to create your gain sounds. Try these settings on your amp: bass 50%, treble 40-50%, mids 40% and set the master to about 1/3 of the channel volume. What kind of guitar do you have? Pickups?
As I've tried to explain in the article, a Big Muff and the Tube Driver might not be the best choice for smaller amps as these are basically designed to drive powerful tube stacks. In any case they will sound different on smaller amps and lower volume. As suggested, I'd check out a RAT for distortions and a Tube Screamer or a Blues Driver for overdrives. They're all ideal for "home rigs" and tehy should fit most budgets.
Keep in mind that tone isn't just stompboxes. You can have a duplicate of David's rig (if that's your goal) but the amp and guitar/pickups also need to be similar to his. I've tried to cover this in the Buyer's Gear Guide articles. Please check out the Designing The Rig article too for some general tone tips. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
I’m thinking of changing my ods and distortion set up; i curently have a modtone speedbox distortion, a boss sd-1 and a behringer to800. I put the to800 up for sale but im not sure if I should after hearing how useful it could be as a booster/TS clone. I’m thinking of buying a a little big muff or a RAT as my primary distortion (leaving the modtone on the bench); i also wonder whether the bd-2 would be a good colorsound alternative for me (the CS is too big and too dear for my board) – so basically i want to know what i should go with:
little big muff/RAT?
SD-1/to800/BD-1?
[This depends very much on what amp and guitar/pickups you have. As explained in the article I recommend the RAT and Tube Screamer for smaller amps and lower volume because pedals like Muffs, Tube Drivers etc are designed for powerful tube stacks and they can be hard to dial in on smaller rigs. The RAT and Tueb Screamer are incredibly versatile and there are different models, clones and similar pedals to choose from. Among those you suggest, I think I'd go for a RAT and stick with both the SD-1 and 808... or at least one of them. I'd also considered a BD-2, which is very similar to the transparent Colorsound... although I strongly recommend a modified version for a better tone if you can afford it. - Bjorn]
Thanks – im relatively small potatoes at the minute; i play the epiphone LP special2, ive got a noname 50w amp (the clean sound is alright and if i get another amp [probably a fender FM] id still keep it to get stereo sounds) for me its not a case of sounding the same as gilmour just a little more like him because its really beyond my means.
Now I’ve got a full pedalboard I usually sell to buy but i think maybe you are right that i should see what i still like/dislike until i make that decision. I did think youd say the RAT and i wanted it confirmed, am i right in thinking Jeff Beck use this; hes another fave of mine largely because of Amused To Death.
I will have to take my chances on the regualar BD-2 because i cant really afford the mod. Do you know what the best settings for these ODs are especially Tone?
[The LP has humbucker pickups and as you know, they do sound a lot different than single coils. It's easier to make the leads work in terms of David's sound but I think you'll have a hard time nailing the cleans and milder overdrives. Depends on how close you want your tone. Difficult to suggest settings as I don't know your guitar and amp but normally you need to keep the tone control on Boss pedals quite low to take off some of the bright overtones. I usually keep it aouround 9:00. - Bjorn]
OK its fine because its generally the leads in terms of sounding like guilour; the fat ditorted ones as well. I’m not as worried about the rhythms as much because thats where i like to mix it up between trying to sound like Johnny Marr, Pete Townshend, The Edge, Neil Young or whoever.
So, thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the reply.
I play a reverse headstock Strat ( mex ) with vintage pickups.
The amp is 75W with all types of Amp and cab Models.
Maybee it is too complex I am not sure.I have now managed a realy good clean ( Gilmour Tone ) which I am very happy with .Maybee I will try a Rat or Overdrive in front of this clean tone.
I read your article about the Boss GT and wondered if that may be a good idea,any thoughts ?
Once again thanks and good luck with the new CD.
Regards
Steve B
[As I said, I'm not familiar with the amp and how the different sims work but I think you should be able to get great tones with the right setup and your guitar. The GT boards are incredibly versatile and in my opinion the best multi boards for live use. It's been awhile since I used one in my rig and I recommend pedals for a more natural tone but again, - if you're considering a multi board I'd go with Boss GT. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Have you ever tried out the MJM Foxey Fuzz? Although the names says its a fuzz, it actually a vintage 70’s big muff.
If you have, what are your thoughts on it??
Phil
[Never tried it but yes, it's a clone of the early Guild Foxey Lady/ EH Triangle model. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Fantastic site,by the way.
I just wanted to mention Maxon OD9, which has the same circuit as od808, but with a better building quality and true bypass. Just have a look on analog Man site about it!
The settings have to be different (lower distortion and higher tone) compare to OD 808.
Christophe
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Thanks again for all the excellent tips on the effects pedals. I have a question for you regarding the “Keeley Fuzz Head” vs. “Analogman Sunface” vs. “Hartman Germanium”? You have the Analogman Sunface on your board, but have you compared it with the Keeley Fuzz Head by chance? The Keeley has both germanium and silcon switches.
I’m getting ready to order one of the three but wanted your expertise on these first, if possible.
Congrats on the new CD by the way! Best, Dave
[Thanks Dave! The Sunface that I have is the silicon model, which has a different sound compared to the Hartman. Depends on what tone you're after. Unless you want that late 60s/ early 70s tone I'd go for a silicon, which imo is a bit more versatile for most of David's tones. The Sunface BC108 is my favourite by far. The Keeley sounds a bit too modern for my taste. The MJM London Fuzz that I just reviewed can also be used for both germanium and silicon tones as it has a lot more gain than the average germanium fuzz... but still, I'd go for the SunFace BC108. -Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Thanks for all the helpful tips and content on your website keep it up. I have a question for you regarding RAT pedal clones. I am finding it hard to get a RAT 2 where I live. However I was contemplating buying a Mi Audio Crunch Box Distortion pedal, how good of a clone is it in comparence to the RAT and have you tried it? Or should I just wait and get a RAT (maybe ebay or online order perhaps).
Thanks
Alex
[I haven't tried the MI so I really can't tell. Other options would be the Mouse from BYOC or a modded RAT from Keeley. - Bjorn]
Hi, Bjorn,
Very interesting article! I would like to ask you something. My amp is a Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 and I have a TS 808 Keeley modded. I play mostly at home, where I can’t play too loud. I was thinking of getting a BYOC triangle or ram’s head as my main distortion. You don’t recomend them with small solid state amps. What can you tell me about the combination big muff, TS808 and small tube amp? I’d have to play it really loud to get a nice Gilmour tone?
Congratulations on your fantastic site!
Thanks,
Ari
[As mentioned, the Big Muff and older fuzz pedals are designed to be used with loud powerful tube amps. The louder you play, the more you crank those tubes, the smoother the pedal gets. On a small stransistor amp, a Big Muff can sound thin and harsh and have little in common with David's huge tone. However, it depends very much on your amp and how you use the pedal. I'm woriking on an in debth article on the matter but I think that in any case, you should be able to get some really cool sounds with your setup and a Muff. The TS could also be placed after the Muff acting as a "pre-amp" to smooth the tone. - Bjorn]
In my opinion, the RAT II is garbage outta the box. But for its price, and after adding mod switch to eliminate its low end undistinguishable mud, this pedal ROCKS! Anyone who has a virgin RAT II is swimming upstream. Clip that resistance and let this “new” pedal slap the vintage model in the face.
[I wouldn't say that the RAT is garbage but the current models is not as good sounding as the originals with the LM308 chip. I do recommend a modified version though, either you do it your self or get a Keeley or similar. - Bjorn]
Have you checked out the TC Electronic Nova Drive? A 100% analog, digital control, true bypass
Distortion and Overdrive in one pedal, can reverse order and put in parallel.
Currently 249.00 US
[Haven't been able to try it yet but it sounds cool! - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
Great article. I have both of these pedals and they are extremely versitile. I run them both through a peavey classic 30 at home and they are wonderful. The peavey classic series of amps are great too, very underrated. And you can’t beat the price either! If anybody is looking for a vintage rat i see them all the time on ebay…
You do a great job bjorn, i’m thankful i have somewhere to go for gilmour knowledge, can never get enough of it! Nice Work.
[Thanks! Glad you enjoy my site :) I agree regarding the Peavey amps. Great tone and value. Cheers! - Bjorn]
wait,
one more question, what would be a good delay and chorus pedal to merry with the rat and 808, thanks!
[Depends on what tones you want. I recommend that you have two delays on your board. One analog echo (TRex Replica, MXR Carbon Copy, EH Memory Man etc) for the early pre-Animals stuff and a digital delay (Boss DD2 is my favorite but anything would do really) for the more accurate settings. David's been using the deleted Boss CE2 chorus on and off since Wall. Great sounding analog unit and easy to fint on EBay. Alternatively you can check out the AnalogMan Chorus, Ibanez CS9 or the EH Small Stone for a similar tone. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn! I love the site, it is extremely helpful for the gilmour info i am fascinated by!
Anyway i was just asking your opinion on the fulltone overdrives, the OCD and the Fulldrive II. I was wanting to know your thoughts on these two because i am currently looking for an overdrive pedal and i was comparing these two to the od808 and a couple of others.
I am looking to use the pedal as a boost on my clean channel, a boost with my proco rat and as an overdrive sound as well. My guitar is an epiphone firebird but i am thinking on buying a strat and putting in CS69 pickups. I have a peavey classic 30.
So what would you recommend or suggest i try. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
[Glad you like my site Alex :) You can't really go wrong with Fulltone pedals. Great quality and great tone. Which one to chose depends on what tone you want. Both the OCD and the Fulldrive lies somewhere between a Tube Driver or Colorsound Powerboost and the 808/TS9. The OCD sounds very much like a cranked Marshall with little compression and a very transparent scooped mids tone... not unlike the Tube Driver/Colorsound but a bit more tube amp-ish. You can also get it to produce a clean volume boost although I think the Colorsound is much better at this. The Fulldrive has a couple of different tone options ranging from a transparent scooped mids tone like the OCD to a more mid rangy 808 tone. Perhaps a bit more versatile than the OCD in terms of Gilmour's tones. I think the Fulldrive would better suit a Peavey Classic. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I have a question reguarding your opinion on my board only as far as overdrives and distortions go. I have a boss bd-2, ibanez Ts-9, AAA green russian, and a RAT2. I play through CS69’s and a fender hotrod deville. If this were YOUR set up, seeing as how i dont have enough room on my board for both, would you keep the RAT2 on the board as the main distortion or the AAA green russian?
Thanks for your help!
[I guess that depends entirely on what you think really. In any case, the a Muff would be more authentic for replicating David's sounds because that's the pedal he's been using since 1977. But, on some setups it can be a bit tricky to dial in the desired tone. That's the purpose of this article - to give you some alternatives. The RAT is an extremely versatile pedal that works nicely on any setup and it will cover most of David's lead tones quite convincingly but it's not a Big Muff. If you feel that your AA gives you the tones you want then stick with it. If it sounds harsh, thin and not quite what you expected then go with the RAT. Keep in mind that the settings I've listed throughout this site should only be used as guidelines. If the suggested Muff (or any other pedal) settings doesn't sound right to you then do your own adjustments. David keeps the tone on the Muff around 11:00 (as do I). On some amps this may produce a harsh, fuzzy tone. Roll off the tone until you get the desired sound. If you end up with settings that are completely different from David's then fine... as long as it sounds good on your amp. If nothing works, then go with the RAT. Hope this helped :) - Bjorn]
Hey, first I must tell you that your website is the best. Also, I just found something on the internet. You said David Gilmour added a Triangle Muff and the T-Rex delay during the 2006 tour but I found another picture where he added also a Ram’s head Muff. Don’t know if you already knew but I just wanted to tell you just in case so you have even more precise information.
[Yeah, it's in the 2006 Tour section :) David is seen trying out a Ram's Head Muff during the rehearsals for the Albert Hall gigs in May 2006 but it was never used on the shows. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Do you have any comments or opinion on the Tim Pedal as a clean boost/overdrive?
Thanks,
Laurent
[I've never tried the pedal so I really can't say... - Bjorn]
-Budget Rat /Rat Substitute-
Bjorn:
The MXR Distortion III or Classic Distortion (Same Circuit – Different Color Boxes) are similar both circuit & tone wise to the Rat.
Hey Bjorn got one for you.Have you had any experiance with the Analogman King of tone V4.Its a dual overdrive pedal.Many goodys in one box.To Quote from the Quicktest from Guitarist issue 312,As delivered one side is set up as a clean boost,while the other is set as an overdrive.Sounds interesting,well to me anywa.Now the thing is,is this sort of pedal specifically for valve amps or would it suit my 5210.Any ideas mate.Cheers
[I've never tried the pedal so I have no clue really. The 5210 seems to get along very well with most pedals although some of the more demanding overdrives can sound a bit harsh on it. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
After stumbing upon your site by accident, I must say that YOU are what makes this site so great. Taking the time to answer each and every question has to take alot of your time but really reflects the class A, generous person that you must be!
My question has to do with overdrive distortion. I am starting from scratch on my pedal board. I have a American standard strat with the Tex Mex pu’s and a fender Hot Rod Deuxe tube amp. If this was your equipment, what (2 or 3) overdrive/distortion pedals would you buy to try and recreate Gilmour’s sound. I’m pretty sold on the Keeley BD2 but what other two would you buy for clean and dirty tones? Thanks again for the wonderful site.
[Glad you enjoy my site Dan! The BD2 is very similar to the old Colorsound Powerboost David used in the 70's for both clean boost and overdrive rhythms like Time, Have a Cigar, Pigs etc. It's transparent tone is ideal for boosting your distortions. It can also produce fairly convincing Tube Driver tones. I strongly recommend the Keeley over the stock Boss. For a versatile tone, I'd go for a Tube Screamer as the second overdrive. My favoruite is the Maxon 808. The MJM Phantom Overdrive is an excellent option. This one has true bypass and a fat switch for more gain and bass. This type of overdrive with a pronounced mid range will get to closer to David's 80's and 90's tones when he used the active EMG pickups' SPC feature to boost the overall mid range for those creamy tones. What kind of distortion you should choose depends on what kind of tone you want. Obviously the Big Muff has been David's main unit since Animals but it can be tricky to dial in on some amps leaving a buzzy harsh tone. My favoruite is the "triangle" 1971 Big Muff for it's pure tone and rich sustain. BYOC offers excellent clones. Don't get tempted by the new reissues from Electro Harmonix or Sovtek. For a more versatile tone that seems to work nicely on any setup I'd go for a RAT. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
How r u friend,
I m trying to just see what should i buy,a skreddy screwdriver or an AA ratzo…..i can’t just set myself on this…….
[Depends on what tone you're after. They're two entirely different beasts. The Screwdriver is somewhere between a Colorsound Powerboost and a Tube Driver. Very bright and transparent transparent overdrive with a typical scopped mids tone (the AA Fits would be its equivalent). The Ratzo is a clone of the RAT distortion. Creamy, warm tone with lots of mid range. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
thanks a lot for your great an inspiring work.
I have spent a lot of time on your brilliant site, but I haven’t found any comments on the Proco Solo yet. It’s supposed to be even more versatile and to have more bottom end than the regular rat – similar to the keeley mod? Is it worth the higher price and can I get gilmourish rat sounds out of it?
And what about the ‘you dirty rat’? (It’s supposed to sound more vintage and compressed).
Do you think the H&K Tube Factor is a good substitute for the tube driver?
What is your opinion about Marshall pedals, say Blues Driver and Regenerator?
Just one more question, what do you think of the Fender Blues Deville 410 amp – can I get Bassman-like and gilmourish sounds out of it?
Thanks and many greetings from Germany
Michael
[A lot of questions here :) I've never tried the Solo so I can't really tell. The You Dirty Rat is OK but I prefer the vintage Rat or the Rat 2 (preferably the Keeley mod). Personally I think the TD is way better than the HK. Not really a fan of Marshall pedals. The old Shredmaster is a classic though... very similar to the RAT. - Bjorn]
Brilliant as always, Bjorn, you’ve always been an inspiration; alas, I’ve taken the long road to Gilmourtown, straight through humkbucker country: I’ve bought an Ibanez AG75 Artcore. Plays like a dream, no doubt about that, and its stock humbuckers sound mellow and sweet, neck one a bit twangy – I dare think it might be Gilmourizable. Would a Regular Rat help them stay nice and transparent like single-coils, or would mostly any fuzz/distortion make them irrevoacbly sound like the buckers they are? And what about a contemporary Marshall Guv’nor on your list? Played one through a Highway One Strat and managed to wrangle out a nice Childood’s End tone.
All the best, you know you rule the roost
[Humbuckers aren't the best option for replicating David's tones. His cleans and most of the overdrives are very much the tone of a Strat with single coils. However, it's easier to get the humbuckers to work with distortions and in my experience at least I've managed to get quite convincing 80s and 90s tones with especially a RAT. David's EMG pickups are almost like a mix between humbuckers and single coils so you kind of have the clean tones from a single coil (or near a P90) and the distortion ones from a humbucker. - Bjorn]
Hey, i have a big doubt here? I’m about to buy a Vintage Rat, but I’ve read that the ones with the VT- serial number are considered to have a poor sound… Do you guys know anything about it?Sshould I look for another one?
Thanks a lot
Micke
[Never heard about that but make sure that the pedal feature the LM308N chip for the best tone. - Bjorn]
Danelectro Daddy-O od pedal. $59 new. Best od I’ve ever heard.
Hey Bjorn hows things.Just listened to the Young Lust clip on this thread,yet again.Its a realy fantastic tone mate.Im using a dynacomp but apart from that we are the same set up.Would you say that the cs2 is better suited than the Dynacomp for use with the rat as im starting to think that my noise problems with my Rat 2 ( I hope you dont remember my whinging about it period to much) could have been made worse by the Dynacomp.Anyway after listening to the clip ive got to get back to the Rat.This solo sure would make a good you tube vid ;)Take care mate .
[I prefer the Dynacomp over the CS2 in any case but that's just my taste. The Dyna can be a bit noisy though and the RAT, with the boosted mid range, is quite noisy in it self, so you might want to back down the compression a bit. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn. I’ve emailed you about this before, and I just had another question to ask you :)
So, before, I asked you if I should keep my big muff and also get a rat or not, and you told me if I only needed one, to get the rat. Well, now I’m at the point where my big muff sounds great, but not without melting people’s brains. Soo, I caved in and ordered a rat. I’ve had it sent to a buddy who’s gonna mod it for me. It’s a USA vintage reissue rat that I managed to catch for $60. Do these already have the LM308 chip in it? And do you know how big of a difference, if any, the normal chip LM308 sounds for the tin pot version? Anddd just a last question, do you power your gain pedals by battery or PSU? Because I’ve heard that some fuzz pedals like the “mushyness” of a dying battery, and the consistant flow of power, while other pedals like having that odd flowing current going into it, etc, etc.
:)
[The Vintage RAT has the LM308 chip. As a rule I'd use carbon non-alkaline batteries on fuzz and old boosters (like Colorsound Powerboost) and power adaptors on anything else (incl Muffs and RATs). - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn and Gilmourish mates ^^
Great sound clips, as always. Love the pinch harmo at the beginning of the demo of the RAT ! I got my RAT2 last week and it sounds really good, thanks for your advices and help.
About the OD, do you (or anyone else) know about the Belcat OVD-302 or newer OVD-502 pedals ? They seem to be a really good budget choice, including the same famous JRC-4558 op-amp chip as the 808’s ?
Thanks a lot, Gilmourishdotcom is the best website ever !
Sly
[Thanks for your kind words Sly! Glad you enjoy my site :) I've never tried the Belcat pedals so I really can't tell. Perhaps someone else here can assist? - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! Love the site. I have my mini-Gilmour rig thanks to your knowledge and advice. CS3, Rat 2, BD-2, Phase 90, and Carbon Copy.
But now im looking into getting a new Strat. I was looking at the American Vintage ‘57 Reissue series. I saw in your guitar article that other than the pickups, its a pretty good guitar. But i am a little confused about the neck. It comes with a V-neck. But Gilmour’s Black Strat has a neck from a ‘57 reissue that is a C-neck. Im sure it is a dumb question, but could you shed some light on this. I ask because i’ve always played a C-neck, and feel a little awkward playing a V. Any advice is much appreciated.
Much Thanks!
[David's 57 neck comes from one of the cream/blonde Strats he bought in the early 1980's. Fender made these reissues with a couple of modifications including using a C neck instead of the classic V neck that the 57s were known for. Some find the V a bit too fat while others - me included - likes them very much. It's all taste and preference. - Bjorn]
HI,
Have you ever tried a Ibanez/Maxon Sonic Distortion SD9? If you have, what’s your opinion on it?
Also, if you have had the chance to try one of Lovepedal ’s Eternity, I would love to hear your opinion on those too… Thanks!!!
[The SD9 is very similar to the classic distortion pedals like the RAT, Marshall Shredmaster and the MXR Distortion +. Very vintage Marshall 800 sound. It has a bit more gain and output perhaps compared to the others. Never tried the but I understand it can produce tones covering a range of pedals like the Tube Screamer, RAT and Cornish SS. It has a warm overdrive/distortion with rich compression and lots of sustain. - Bjorn]
litlle off topic i know, but what settings are you useing on your Boss CS-2 for young lust? i just got mine today and im stille trying to figure the attack knob and what not haha
[Depends entirely on your rig - guitar/pickups, amp and the other pedals. I usually set mine with the level at 2:00, attack, 12:00 and sustain 11:00 but when I play at home at low volume where I need to squeeze the tones for more sustain I roll the sustain up to 12:00 and sometimes 1:00 (o'clock). - Bjorn]
Hi there, great article, love the website. Would just like to offer a word of warning: The Rat 2 is no longer made in America. Since May 2003 they started being manufactured in China, so all Rat 2 units with a serial no. above 300,000 are Chinese and use a different chip (NOT the classic LM308 chip.) These units sound NO WHERE NEAR as good as the classics from the 80s. I bought my Rat 2 new last year and have been extremely disappointed with it. Robert Keeley, however, does Rat Mods and will install the old chip.
On another note, the Danelectro Cool Cat CT-2 is a wonderful transparent overdrive unit for little money. It has a treble and bass boost so is very versatile for boosting a distortion unit, and sounds great on its on for crisp, early Gilmour overdrive sounds. In my humble opintion, anyway.
[Thanks for the tips. The RAT has lost some of it mojo with the shift of production to China and the exclusion of the LM 308 chip. As you say, the Keeley is a great alternative and I also recommend the Might Mouse from BYOC. ProCo has just released a reissue of the old '85 RAT though with the LM308 chip intact. It's also worth checking out the Boss DS-1 AnalogMan version for a similar tone. - Bjorn]
So are you driving the rat and the Tube Screamer at the same time and if so where do they fit in the order of the rig.
[You can use the TS to boost the RAT but in most cases on a smaller amp, you'd get a better tone with just one of them and not a combo. Check out this article for pedal setups etc. - Bjorn]
I would like to spend a few good words for the infamous RAT2. I don’t mean to dispute if the reissue or the vintage RAT is better (I trust the old RATs are better), but in my opinion, even the China made RATs are still a great pedal to have. There’s a lot of hype about the RAT White Face ‘85 reissue and as a result, last week I was able to get a new RAT2 for only 55 US bucks on ebay. For that price you barely get a Behringer clone of a clone. Now, that’s what I call a bargain!
The RAT2 does wonders to my little 15w Highwatt and delivers even with just my Zoom G2 digital sims and headphones. Now I can get pretty convincing overdrive, muff, fuzz & even metal tones. Not quite ‘THE’ muff or fuzz face tone, but without a good tube amp I can’t go very far anyway.
I must admit the RAT2 can sound a bit harsh sometimes, but when I boost it with a TS clone (a behringer), things sound a lot smoother and nicer.
Now I wonder if the White Face reissue is four times better than the RAT2? And in any case. I am not sure how much difference would I would be able to appreciate on my small rig.
Finally, I am considering to add the Blues Driver to my collection of pedals, do you think RAT2 & BD2 are a nice pair to build a gilmour tone?
Is the BD2 Keeley mod a must for small rigs? Is it really worth it?
Cheers
[I agree Giorgio. The RAT in general is a great pedal and, as you point out, you can do some really good bargains. There is a difference with the LM308 though. The tone is noticeably warmer and smoother. Still, I'd get a new RAT over a Boss DS1 or a MXR Distortion + (reissue). Not sure if you'd notice the difference on a smaller rig though. Haven't compared that my self. The BD2 is a great versatile pedal ideal for replicating David's Colorsound Powerboost and Tube Driver tones with it's transparent, classic scooped mids sound. The Keeley and other mods has a more balanced lower end and a much smoother break up. Highly recommended although the stock Boss is a great budget option. The BD2 also works much better as a booster for a distortion than the TS, since this one can oversaturate with the boosted mid range. - Bjorn]
Hey bjorn,
I’ve been trying to figuer out what kind of mod to get for a BD-2 im getting soon. Ive actually read alot of bum reviews about keeleys mods and ive found that Monte Allum offers better mods for less the price (becuase they’re DIY kits). Im not sure if your famillar with Monte’s mods but he has several mods for the BD-2, some im sure you’ve heard of. What im wondering is wich of two of his mods would be good for Gilmour tone.
one is the BD-2 H20+ mod and the other is his Blues Stack mod. The H20+ is definitely the brighter sounding pedal, and seems to generate more signal distortion when the gain is cranked up past halfway. I would consider it slightly more transparent sounding than the BSP mod, though they are both among the most transparent OD’s I’ve heard. this mod has a much flatter EQ also.
The BSP version is definitely a warmer and bluesier sounding pedal, as the name would indicate it should be. The character of the distortion when the gain is cranked is also smoother–again in keeping with the “blues” theme. At the same tone pot settings, it generates very noticeably less treble end than the H2O+, and this is why I suspect it sounds a wee bit less transparent and open sounding when compared side-by-side with that version. Ive listened to their mp3 samples of both sound good, ive even e-mailed Monte on his opinion on which will give me the btter Gilmour tone and he suggest the Blues Stack Mod (his site recommends this mod for SRV,Hendrix,Zeppelin,ect as well) but ive also read the H20+ works better. Anyways i was wanting your opinion on wich of these sound best. ( im useing a MIM strat with CS69’s and SSL-5) Heres their site link if your wanting more info
or anyone els reading: http://www.monteallums.com/pedal_mods.html
[Depends a little on your amp. In either case I'd go for the BSP. It's much closer to the Tube Driver that David's using. The H20+ can be a bit bright and aggressive, especially on high gain settings. If you have a Fender amp or similar this can be quite nasty. The BSP is very close to the Keeley and AnalogMan mods (and my Danish C-mod). - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Reading your article, a great one by the way, i’m convinced to buying the RAT and Maxon as my overdrive and distortion pedals. I just have one question, you said that the RAT is best when backed by a boost or EQ pedal, I’m not sure what these are, so do you have any suggestions.
[The RAT is a bit thin in the lower frequiencies so you might want to add an overdrive or EQ unit after it boosting the bass. You could use the Tube Screamer but this is not ideal since both pedals has a lot of mid range. You'll end up with a muddy, over saturated tone. I recommend a transparant overdrive like the Boss BD2. This has a fat lower end and a great clean tone for boosting distortions. It's also a great overdrive for those 70's tones. The Tube Screamer is ideal for the 80 and 90s overdrives (Delicate and PULSE). - Bjorn]
I wanna have some tips to combine my TS9 and my RAT II to play time, confortably numb with my CS2 and DD3 delay. I have a boutic amp with black strat with SSL5 and CS69 pickups.
Thx
Alex from france
[CS2 > RAT > TS9 > DD3. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Ive been searching on e-bay and I came across some vintage RAT pedals, (they all look the same as the one in the picture at the beginning of the article),however, some say 89 proco rat, some say 90s proco rat, but they all look the same. Is there a difference?
[As far as I know the vintage RAT or Big Box RAT wasn't produced in 89. The first and original line was between 79-81 and it was released between 91-05. I think all of these has the LM308 chip... also the newer ones. The chip has much warmer tone than the new versions. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Do you know of any budget solid states ($200) that are good for gilmour tones? I’m working on an ultra-low budget.
Thanks
[I'd go for something used, like a Peavey Classic 30 or a Marshall 5210. Check out the Fender Champoin as well. It's small but loud with a great tube tone. - Bjorn]
Hi
Just discovered your amazing website, and was hoping you could give me some advice on a boost pedal. I’m looking for a clean-boost pedal to leave on all the time, to brighten up my dark-sounding Metro JTM45. Amp is set fairly clean, volume around 5, and I’m about to change the rectifier for a ss plug-in for more punch and clearity. I’m currently using a BSM treblebooster for the purpose, and I’m getting a really good, cutting, sparkly clean rythm sound when I roll off the volume on my strat to around 7-8. It also does an amazing job in front of my Vox big ben OD. However, on it’s own, the BSM get harsh and brittle with guitar volume on 10. I’ve also got an analogmodded maxon OD808 for lead boost and a sunface NKT , but the bsm doesn`t work that well together with the 808 and the fuzz. I’m looking for a pedal with the same sparkling cleans for Gilmore and Knopfler rythms (I find most OD pedals gets to dark and muddy when lowering guitar volume), but a little more versatile on it’s own and with my other pedals. I understand that the colorsound PB can be used much in the same way, but is it worth the price? Also concidering the Colordrive, Keeley Boss BD-2 and Xotic RC. What are your opinion on theese pedals for my set-up?
[A treble boost is not the same as a traditional scooped mids type of overdrive like the Colorsound Pwerboost and Tube Driver. A treble boost is essentially an EQ boosting the treble frequencies and this will make your amp sound brighter and make the tubes distort. I guess what you're looking for, is an overdrive that can produce some of David's rhythm and warmer lead tones. The Colorsound Powerboost is an excellent booster and overdrive with a bright, transparent tone capable of producing punchy cleans and near fuzz. The Colourdrive is based on the Powerboost but it's voiced for a much cleaner tone, so this might be a better choice if you only want to brighten up your amp and still maintain it's tone. The Tube Driver is very similar to the Powerboost with a bit more bit and a slightly warmer tone. I also recommend the Boss BD2 as a great budget model, although it's worth checking out the Keeley or Analogman modified versions. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Got to admit, that I’m a little bit confused (Dogs LOL). I have a few questions. If I use RAT as my main distortion pedal what should I place behind it for a bit more aggression, Maxon OD808 or Keeley BD-2? Since I’m starting from scratch what do you think I should buy first BD-2 or OD 808, and is there a need for both of them?
I’m planning on getting Boss CS-2 as a compressor, Rat as a distortion, BD-2/OD808 (or both of them) for overdrive, MXR Phase 90, and MXR Carbon Copy for start. Since I’m home player I would listen to your advice and get Peavey Classic 30 for my amp. Again if I buy both OD808 and BD-2 what should I use them for and is there a need for both of them in this effects chain above?
Thanks,
Jova.
[I think the BD2 is better for boosting the RAT with its bright, transparent tone. Both the RAT and TS9/OD808 has a lot of mid range and if you combine these the tone tends to get oversaturated and muddy. I'd get the RAT for distortions, the BD2 for boosting both your clean tones and the RAT and a TS9/OD808 for warmer overdrives. That should be a very versatile setup covering most tones. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Ugh, I’m awful at this tone thing, (Ive gotten better though, a million times thanks to you!!!!) This is actually for the designing the rig article, but whats a compressor? I thought I had all this stuff down until I read about it (I know it helps the distortion and stuff, I just need a little more info.)
P.S. Sorry for all these stupid questions, Im just trying to achieve the 70`s Gimour tone, Ill get better at this someday :)
[No worries Michael! No stupid questions :) Check out this article for some tips. Let me know if you're still not sure. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, greetings from Italy! :-)
My compliments for your website, that I recently found, and my thanks for the time you spend to keep it great.
I recently started playing in a pink floyd tribute band and since then I’m living in a costant desire to improve my tone and make it as close as possible to the pulse tone that I prefer over all (but I have to admit that the ‘70 sound is great too).
Over the years – I’m a vintage guy :-) – I collected different pedals and guitars and amps.
My rig today is:
Fender USA ‘89 strat with fat ’50 pups and jacaranda (italian luthier) strat with duncan antiquity pups
Crybaby wha/ scarlata buffer / planet waves tuner / mxr dynacomp / vintage RAT / BYOC big muff (thanks to your advice, great pedal) / Boss OD3 / Boss SD1 jap/ Danelectro vibe / Ehx small stone / Ibanez CS9 / Tc- Electronic nova delay / Ehx holy grail reverb.
Fender hotrod deluxe or a Laney VC 30.
Other pedals that I have: BOSS DD3 jap / DD3 / CS3
Ehx electric mistress deluxe – broken :-(
Ibanez TS5 Mod / TS 7 / TS808
Keeley javaboost – lot of noise, want to sell it!
Pro Co RAT II
Zendrive clone
Starting from your experience, can you suggest some changes in my rig? Too much pedals? I’m planning to place the TS808 instead of the OD3 but I’m afraid to get a muddier tone (OD3 is brighter ) and maybe add the boss DD3 jap. And, of course, repair or buy the Electric Mistress.
Sorry for the long post and thank again for your time.
Cheers!
Rudy
[Since you ask, I think I'd replace the OD3 with either a Tube Screamer or a Tube Driver. Both are, in my opinion, much better sounding pedals... at least in terms of Gilmour's tone. I'd also ditch the SD1. Don't think you'll need it. I'm also not a big fan of adding reverb in the chain. Check out this article for some tips. A good pedal board is often a collection of just the most basic stuff. Try to keep things simple and choose pedals that not only sound good on their own, but also suits your guitar and amp. Cheers! - Bjorn]
i only want to bring to your attention a new excellent ovedrive .. made by brown electronics , hoochee mama
Hi Bjorn,
I just want to say that this is perhaps the most comprehensive and helpful of all the Gilmour websites that I’ve come across. Not only are you patient and thorough with helping others, but you have insane guitar skills to top it off. Thank you for maintaining such a valuable resource for Gilmour lovers!
For a bedroom guitar player like me, chasing the Gilmour tone is extremely difficult. I can never crank my Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue past volume 3, so I can only strive to get as close to the Gilmour tone as possible. So far, my signal chain consists of a Fender Strat with Duncan antiquities Texas Hot (neck, mid) and Duncan SSL-5 (bridge) into a Barber Tone Press, HBE Power Screamer (Tube Screamer clone), BYOC Large Beaver (Triangle), BK Butler Tube Driver (on loan from a friend), DLS Chorus~Vib, MXR Carbon Copy, finally into the Fender Deluxe Reverb.
With my setup I can confirm that the Tube Driver, although being everyone’s “dream” pedal, does not work well at low volume. Neither does the BYOC Larve Beaver. It sounds too harsh. For this very reason, I’ve ordered a Barber LTD SR which is a transparent overdrive with a flat EQ response similar to the BOSS BD-2. I hope that it will make my amp come alive at bedroom volumes, and also smooth out the BYOC Large Beaver.
So Bjorn, do you have any experience with the Fender DRRI amp? I’m having trouble dialing a very basic clean tone at such low volumes. The amp does not have a “mid” knob, only treble and bass. To my ears, the amp is slightly muddy with my Celestion Vintage 30 cabinet. Any possible suggestions to get rid of the muddiness?
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) Playing at home at low levels is a challenge. Some amps works better than others but it will have to be a compromise in most cases. I don't have that much experience with your amp but you should be able to dial in som decent tones. Since the amp doesn't have a mid range control it can be useful to add an equalizer like the Boss GE7 to boost the mids. That'll smooth out some of the harsh overtones. You might also need to roll off the treble a bit more than normal and set the channel quite high and lower the master. I usually recommend pedals that are a bit more versatile than a Muff and Tube Driver for playing at home - someone with a bit more mid range for a warmer and smoother tone like the RAT and Tube Screamer. - Bjorn]
Hi, congratulations! Your website is awesome!
I’ve read your entire site and I’m having doubts about the boost / overdrive. This guide helped me choose the RAT for distortion.
I have a Squier Stratocaster with Fender Custom ‘69 pickups and a big handmaked transistor amp (140w). I’ve fixed the following pedals to buy (100% real clones):
1. Compressor: MXR Dynacomp (Clone).
2. Distortion: ProCo RAT (Clone with LM308).
3. Booster / Overdrive: ?
4. Uni-Vibe: Dunlop Univibe (Clone).
5. Delay: A simple analog delay. Sounds similar to MXR Carbon Copy.
Well, there are some booster / overdrive options that I could choose for similar prices, here they are:
1. Ibanez Tube Screamer TS808 (Clone).
2. Fulltone OCD (Clone).
3. Xotic BB Preamp (Clone).
4. Klon Centaur (Clone).
5. Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive (Clone).
Which of these would be the best choice for my guitar and my transistor amp?
Greetings from Brazil!
[Based on your setup I'd go for something versatile like the RAT. The Sparkle Drive is flat and dull in my oppinion. The OCD sounds better on tube amps. Never tried the Xotic so I can't tell. The Klon is probably the best booster pedal on the market. Warm clean boost with lots of character and capable of producing some really creamy overdrive tones. The 808 is a classic and you can't really go wrong. It might lack some gain though so I recommend the MJM Phantom Overdrive which is a clone with a fat switch. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
Im still new on useing Distortions and OD together.
Right now im just useing the basic solid state at home setup,
with a ProCO Rat II and TS9 and my new BD-2 (and a CS-2 and line 6 podxt but tehyre not part of my queestion). Any ways I\’ve found some good settings for diffrent songs and eara.
But i was wanting your opinion and reccomendation on what settings i should be useing or rule of thumb. I set my Rat to Dist.2 o’clock,flitrer. 2-3 o’clock and the level 12-3. for my Muff tones and just set the Dist/filter to 12-1 for fuzz tone. then i combine the Rat with eatiher the BD-2 or Ts9, When i’m useing the Ts9 i’m usually useing (combined with Rat) 11:00-11:30 tone, drive 1-2 o’clock and level 2-3 (for my 80s-present tone). I just got my BD-2 and been playing around with it, so far ive found with (by the way on the BD-2 dose the level effect he volume of the pedal and gain the “drive”?) Level at 12ish,Tone im not sure yet, suggestions?, and Gain at 7-8 o’clock, combined after the RAT in muff status I get a real nice tone that sounds a little like OAI and a little pit pulseish , cant quite determine yet. anyways i’m also trying to learn aboout findeing the “sweet” spot and useing an OD as a clean boost.
So any setting suggestions for diffrent eras would be nice as well as any helpful tips would be appreciated for this Effects Noob.
Thank You!
[It's always hard to suggest settings because just a hair on the knob might have completely different results on two different rigs. A pedal will always interact with your amp, guitar/pickups, cables, other pedals, technique etc so what works for me might be way off for you. I like to keep the BD2 fairly clean as a booster for my cleans, overdrives and distortions. Normally i set the volume slightly above unity gain, tone 10:00 and gain 9:00 right before it breaks (mine is modified and has a wider clean range than the stock model). The volume has an effect on the gain. The higher the volume on the pedal the bighter and more punchy the gain stage gets. A lot of people tend to forget that volume is a vital part of the tone. Hope this helped. Cheers! - Bjorn]
So would is be possible or recommended to have a OD acting as a clean boost and another OD for overdrive being used for boosting/driveing distortion all at the same time?
For instance a Rat (dist.) going into a BD-2 (clean boost) then into a TS9 for overdriv with all pedals used at once.
[I wouldn't recommend it. Even though the BD-2 is set for a clean boost it's still a gain pedal and it will colour your tone. I also would be careful using the RAT and TS9 together since they both have a lot of mid range which often results in a muddy, oversaturated tone. My advice is to always keep things a basic as possible. Use the BD2 as a clean boost with just a hint of crunch as a basis for either the RAT on distortions or the TS9 for overdrives. As always though - try different combos, settings and arrangements and trust your ears. If it works for your then go for it! - Bjorn]
so would you suggest Guitar>RAT>TS9(OD)>BD-2(cleanboost) to make best use out the three? I’m just trying to get the right idea of how i should set my pedals up, when it comes to the tS9 andBD-2 ive been useing you Pulse Shine On Video as reference because i’m beliveing your have the BD-2 going into the TS9. lol when it comes to ODs im still learning exactly how to use them.
[I always keep the booster last. My suggestion was RAT+BD2 for distortions and TS9+BD2 for overdrives. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, thanks for the tips!!
I’m experimenting: at this moment I removed Holy Grail, SD-1and OD-3 for the TS 808(OD) and zendrive clone (boost). It seems to work well with both HDR deluxe and VC 30. I think I will also try the java boost before the RAT. Some problems with the Beaver, the RAT seems to sound better to my ear.
I had the time to check deeply your site: GREAT! lots of useful informations. Thanks to your advices I amazed my band with the – I admit, not yet perfect :-) – waving part of CN. Thank you|
[Cheers Rudy! Glad I can help :) - Bjorn]
Really ,really awesome .. THE ICECREAMER, WICH IS A BROWN ELECTRONICS HOCHEE MAMA CLONE WITH new 220NF INPUT AND OUTPUT CAPACITORS .THE ORIGINAL S WERE 100NF. ALSO BETTER THAN ZENDRIVE IS ZENKUDO.I’M A BIG FAN OF AMERICAN STOMPBOXES BUT THIS IMPROVEMENTS DONE BY THE JAPS MADE THEEM MUCH MORE USEFUL. ALSO , SAY HELLO TO VALVETTE OVERDRIVE BUILT BY A YOUNG GIFTED MAN FROM UK.THERE ARE ALSO SOME AMERICANS LIKE CLAY JONES , WHO MADE WONDERFUL TS -808 CLONES. I LOVE THIS YOUNG BRAVE HEROES.PLEASE CONTACTME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.. DON’T FORGET BILL FINNEGAN .. KLON CENTAUR IS THE BEST CLEAN BOOSTER EVER MADE ON THIS PLANET.
[Thanks for the tips! - Bjorn]
First of all, I LOVE your website. Im a huge Pink Floyd fan and specially of David’s tone and playing
Have you tried Danelectro’s Transparent Overdrive? Few people try it because Danelectro is knwon for cheap pedals biult very poorly and with not very good sound, but this pedal comes in a metal enclosure, its true bypass and it’s built very strong
The tone is amazing, it is a mild overdrive and is a great clean booster that doesnt color your sound, unlike a tube screamer that adds a lot of mids
I think this would be a great budget alternative for a TS 808
Best regards from Mexico!
[Thanks for your kind words and the tip! I haven't tried the pedal my self but I will! Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi…Been lurking and reading on your site…I am building a black strat(all black….except for the neck, based on a 2010 American Std Strat, and a pre loaded pickguard from a custom outfit in the US…)
I have a Fender Twin Reverb 65 Reissue (2 yr old) and want to know what the best two pedals would be as a start for a Gilmour Tone…I love all the albums but want to play similar to Delicate sounds and earlier albums (dark side, animals, etc…)
What do you recommend…I also have a GDEC 30 as a practice amp which as some cool presets for Floyd type sounds, but I want to transition to the Tube amp…
I was thinking the Maxon OD-808 and the Rat or RatII if I can find them…But what is your thoughts…I do want to be economical but I also want the most bang for the buck…I am confused as to all the above posts as when I thought I knew which route to go, it all changed from reading everyone’s opionions…
Thanks in advance…Awesome site by the way!!
Cheers from Austin Texas!!
[As I've tried to explain in this article the 808 and RAT seems to work with almost anything. You can't go wrong and they do sound great as well. Classic pedals that's been used on countless albums. They shouldn't set you back too much either. Both will easily cover any Gilmour period with some tweaking but keep in mind that these are alternatives to David's more demaning pedals so you need to live with 90% of his tones (baring in mind that your guitar and amp also plays a significant role in shaping the tone). I'd go for these two or something similar like a Fulltone OCD as an alternative to the 808 and an AnalogMan Boss DS-1 for the RAT. - Bjorn]
Thanks for the fast reply, I have been looking for them already on ebay etc..are the TS-808 Reissue’s worth it or should I look for vintage, I also notice the Maxon 0d-808 is a reissue with some factory mods to prevent static/noise…the proco rat 2 is it ok, or again should i look for vintage…I am fine finding the right choices, but I don’t know if those recent versions are worth looking at…I think I am going thru reading overload on here!!
[The Maxon 808 is great and a bit smoother than the current Ibanez version. The new RAT pedals are not as warm and smooth as the older models. Be sure to get one with the LM308 chip. That's about pre-2000. - Bjorn]
Thanks for answering my second question….My Guitar Teacher recommended saving for “Better” Pedals such as FullTone etc…with True bypass…So where would the Full Drive 2 Mosfet and the Pig Mine (skreddy) fit in in the idea of subbing and 808 and Rat for the above two pedals? Wish I could find a Pink Flesh as they seem to be really well regarded…
[The FullDrive 2 is kind of like a mix between a Tube Driver and a 808. Classic overdrive with lots of different tones. I haven't tried the Pig Mine my self but it's based on a Muff... slightly different than a RAT but should go well with most tube amps. - Bjorn]
hello bjor,
i tried sending this earlier but dunno if it sent of my phone. anyways, im doing Monte Allums trigain mod to my RAT 2, and an optional part is to remove a diode and eaither leave it empty for a more compressed gain, or put in montes replacement and get a more smooth less compressed gain. so basicly which do you think be best for my gilmour tone (I use a keeley modded BD-2 as a clean boost for my RAT which i treat as a big muff since im useing a 100w transistor amp.
[I've never done this myself or heard the different options but I'd say as much compression as possible for the best RAT tone. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
What delay unit would you recomend with the rat and the boss bd2 backing it up?
[Anything would do really. My fav delay at the moment is the old Boss DD2. The T-Rex Replica is great and you should check out the TC Electronics Repeater as well. - Bjorn]