Every week I’ll present a little tip that’ll hopefully help improve your tone and technique. Please feel to comment and share your experience on the topic.
This is an updated version of the Buyer’s Gear Guide : Overdrive and Distortion posted October 5 2008.
Overdrive and distortion
One of the most frequent questions I get is “which overdrive and/or distortion pedal covers most of David’s tones?”. The answer greatly depends on what guitar and amp you’re using and how authentic you want to be but perhaps equally important – how will you be using the pedal? A big stage setup is one thing but playing at home with the volume barely above what your ear is capable of hearing require a whole different approach. In this article we’ll look at ways to improve your bedroom rig.
First of all I want to stress the importance of a good sounding guitar and amp. No pedal can “repair” what your guitar and amp can’t deliver and there’s nothing that kill your inspiration more than trying to force your gear to sound like something it isn’t. A good tone doesn’t require a whole lot of fancy stuff. Nor does it have to be too expensive. There are lots of great sounding guitars and amps well within even the tightest budget and this is also a segment that’s growing among the better-known brands. Regardless the size of your pocket book you should have some idea of what you’re looking for and do have an open mind as well! Perhaps the amp you thought would sound like crap is just what you’re looking for.
A typical Gilmourish bedroom amp should have as much headroom as possible, a classic mids scooped tone and about 15-30w output depending on how powerful the amp is. Tubes are of course preferable. See this review for some tips on great sounding amps under $700.
Amp setup:
Use the clean channel – bass 50%, treble 50-60%, mids 40%, presence 50-60% and set the master to about 1/3 of the channel volume. See this article for tips on how to use the effects loop.
The average guitarist will perhaps tell you that the best option is to utilize the amp’s gain stage and place the delays and modulations in the effects loop. A great tip indeed and I often do it my self but what we really want is to get the feeling of playing at a huge arena with David’s larger that life tone. David’s classic Big Muff + Tube Driver setup is what got many of us into loving his tones but trying to replicate it can turn a patient guitarist insane.
The Big Muff and overdrives like the Colorsound Powerboost and Tube Driver was designed for loud powerful tube amps. This is important to understand. These pedals’ strength is also their weakness. On solid states and smaller amps they may sound quite the opposite of what you’d expect – thin and fuzzy with a choked sustain. A common reaction is to think that you either can’t find the right settings or that the pedal is crap. However, the hard fact is that the pedals aren’t designed for your setup or the way you use it. This might be hard to admit when you’ve blown all your savings on a vintage item.
For most bedroom setups, regardless amp and guitar, I recommend a versatile collection of pedals that’ll cover the tones you’re looking for without too much tweaking. These pedals might not be as unique sounding as a Big Muff or Tube Driver, but they’ll effortlessly handle even the most demanding setup.
Overdrive
There are mainly two different overdrives – the classic transparent mids scooped boosters and the creamy, mid boosted overdrives. Both have distinctly different characters and serve different purposes. I recommend having one of each in the setup for a versatile wide range of tones.
David’s Colorsound Powerboost (1972-1983) and Tube Driver (1993-present) are typical vintage style boosters/overdrives with a classic bright mids scooped tone similar to the early Marshalls. The pedals are designed for boosting a tube amp for more gain and distortion but they also have enough headroom for a transparent volume boost. On smaller amps and solid states in particular these overdrives tend to sound too bright with gain bleed due to the silicon transistors.
Better options for smaller amps and solid states are the Boss BD2 (preferably a Keeley model), Boss OD3 and Fulltone OCD. These are all very similar to the Powerboost and Tube Driver with a slightly warmer tone and a bit more compression. The BD2 in particular is an extremely versatile pedal ideal for transparent clean boost, dedicated overdrive and for boosting distortions. The OCD is based on a TS9 but the additional tone toggle switch adds more presence and mids scoop.
The Tube Screamer appeared in the late 70s and soon became the standard for most guitarists. Compared to the Powerboost and Tube Driver the TS have a smooth creamy tone with lots of mid range and compression. The pedal was designed to capture the sound of a cranked tube amp in combination with a booster or fuzz making it ideal for smaller amps and solid states in particular.
Perhaps not the typical Gilmour tone but the Tube Screamer is extremely versatile and allowing great tones on even the most demanding setup. If you’re having trouble with harsh distortions the TS can help smooth out the signal but its pronounced mid range will also colour the distortion and dominate the tone. In this case the BD2 is a better option.
Personally I prefer the slightly smoother Maxon OD808 but the Tube Screamer is available in countless forms and clones – Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive, BYOC Overdrive, Jam Pedals Tube Dreamer etc. The Fulltone OCD is a hot rodded TS with slightly more gain and lower end as well as an additional tone toggle switch for more presence and mids scoop. A great choice if you have to choose just one overdrive unit for your setup.
Distortion
As talked about above the Big Muff can be a tough challenge on smaller amps and solid states. Some models like the Jam Pedals Red Muck and the excellent Blackout Effectors Musket are some of the few Muffs I’ve come across that seems to handle even the most demanding amps but unless you’re very certain of how your amp behaves I’d go for something more versatile.
The RAT appeared in the late 70s along side the Tube Screamer. The idea was to capture the tone of a Marshall+fuzz+humbucker combo for smaller amps resulting in a warm, creamy distortion with a saturated tone and rich sustain. Not quite a fuzz nor a Big Muff but the RAT is capable of replicating convincing tones with its versatile tone control. It also has enough gain to be able to stand-alone without a booster allowing a cleaner and easier to tame signal.
The Rat was featured in David’s rig between 1988-1994 and the pedal was used on several Floyd songs and guest appearances during the period – perhaps most notably on What Do You Want From Me (Division Bell and PULSE).
Although the new stock RAT pedals are OK I strongly recommend a vintage model or the RAT II with the LM308 chip for a considerably smoother and warmer tone. There are also a wide range of great sounding clones like the Absolutely Analog Ratzo, BYOC Mouse (with additional clipping modes) and Heartman Distortion. My favorite clone is the excellent Retro-Sonic Distortion with three clipping modes for tonal variations and a bit more gain and lower end than the stock RAT. Adding the transparent Boss BD2 behind the RAT smooths out any harsh overtones and adds a bit more compression.
A good rule is to keep the setup as basic as possible. This not only ensures a clean noiseless signal but also saves you from a lot of unwanted feedback and trouble adjusting the gain. A loud cranked tube amp requires less gain from each pedal allowing a compressor+distortion+booster combo without screaming feedback and noise. A smaller setup and lower output volume on the other hand require more gain from each pedal but the trick then is to match the pedals and find the sweetspot between all. In most cases a compressor and EQ are quite redundant. A RAT works nicely alone but if you do want to add a booster be sure to roll off its gain almost all the way and set the volume to slightly above unity. This adds a warmer character and a bit more compression.
Hi there, the very last thing you said about these two pedals is true. They’re much more versatile than Fuzz Faces or Big Muffs besides being a little cheaper too.
Personally, I got a recent RAT II (60 euros used) and with a very little money I can get David-like tones (combining and alternating it with a Chandler Tube Driver and a BYOC Large Beaver muff clone) as well as more heavy and “modern” tones like the Foo Fighters one (from what I know they’re RAT users too).
I believe this is one of the pedals that fits many guitarists needs, not only for Gilmour-addicted ones!
[Agree. While the Big Muff may sound better or more interesting or whatever, it's not very versatile and it can sound horrible in some situations. The RAT seems to fit any musical style. As does the Tube Screamer. - Bjorn]
Nice picks! I’ve got a Digitech Bad Monkey and it suits my OD needs perfectly (and I hated Digitech before I tried one out). Highly recommended!
On the Dogs of War demo can you get that sound with a Strat!!
Cuz that is the sound i’ve always wanted!!
[Yep. Don't know why I used the Telecaster but I get the same tone from my Strat. - Bjorn]
I know everyone will think this is crazy but the Behringer T0800 (Vintage Tube Overdrive) is actually a decent sounding overdrive. It is by far the cheapest thing on my board (plastic housing, super cheap knobs, weak, pcb mounted switch, etc) but it sounds dead on to the tube screamers and clones I have tried. For the price ($20) I just keep a spare around.
I’m also considering the GGG tube screamer kit that is on sale this month. I’m a sucker for diy pedals these days.
[I've done some pretty convincing A/B testing of the Maxon and the Behringer T0800. They sound very similar and the TO800 is a great budget alternative. - Bjorn]
Great review and soundclips(!) of two amazing pedals!
Also, I like the philosophy behind your story.
This way you can get a sound / EQ(!) of the recordings we all know and love in “home situations”.
However, it must have been a (slightly) different tone that was comming out of the amp 30 years ago, during the recording sessions. I believe, the actual producer (mixing desk) did alter the overall EQ of the tracks quite a bit. These albums were masterpieces of the whole studio team. (from sound engineer to producer and end-mastering).
Good to read some advice on a topic like this, because not everybody has all the gear of David…
I’ve just received my BYOC Ram’s Head, it has an extra switch allowing to select the classic Muff “mid scooped” sound or adding more mid to the tone.
Somehow I like it the classic way.
I’ll have to test it within context (within an actual mix).
I will make some recordings soon.
Cheers,
Ernest
[Thanks Ernest! I think both pedals are an excellent choice especially when you're only sitting at home playing. They will sound great on almost any setup. I think most recordings are altered or mixed.. some more than others. On an Island and Fin Cut seems to be fairly clean but Dark Side, WYWH, Animals and Wall especially is the result of some heavy studio tricker. Not to mention PULSE. Keep me posted on your new BYOC :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
Impressives soundlips, Bjorn.
Lovely TS sounds coming from your first clip. It is totally this end 80′s sound that David Gilmour used to have.
A great listening, thank you very much.
[Thanks Deck! - Bjorn]
Interresting article indeed. I’m not familiar with ProCo Rat at all, even though I’ve seen them on pedal boards all over the world and a lot of people seem to adore them. I’m planning to pick on up someday.
I’ve owned a lot of different Tubescreamers over the years. My favorite is definitely T-Rex Engineering Alberta, a great clone with a little enhancement regarding the bass response. But I think most Tubescreamers and it’s clones are a little bit too weak. I’ve even replaced my Alberta with a Xotic AC Booster, which I really adore. It’s absolutly faboulous.
But I strongly recommend a Alberta for anyone looking for a TS808, that’s in fact slightly better than the original.
Keep up the great work, Björn!
[Thanks for the tip Johan! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, interesting article even though I don’t like the TS9 and derived pedals at all. Their excessive midrange and lack of bass response are better suited for driving an already breaking up amp, the same way SRV used it. Alone in a clean Hiwatt amp the sound is way too boxy. All I said IMHO clearly.
About the Rat, sorry but the term modified Fuzz Face is odd, they’re completely 2 different beasts, both sonically and circuit wise. I guess the Rat could be better described as a “overmaxed Tube Screamer” even though it’s definitely a distortion box on it’s own.
Cheers!
[The RAT is not a modified Fuzz Face but Scott Burnham and Steve Kiraly who designed the RAT used to fix, modify and enhance Fuzz Face pedals in their workshop in the early 1970's. From that experience they build the RAT with the idea of creating a unique distortion pedal. - Bjorn]
Interesting guide… I have both the pedals, a rat DIY with 6 different types of clipping and a TS9 /808. it is true that with these two pedals you have so many types of sounds… from the light overdrive to the hell of distortion!!!
Thank you very much…
Hi!
I own a Rat 2 and I was thinking of selling it! It’s very versatile: from Nirvana to Eagles, even metal… It´s a pedal that give us much variety of sound (Overdrive to fuzz) and make a dull amp come alive with less volume!… But, the mix of Rat with a muff or fuzz is to forget (even at low gain settings) I don’t know why! I’ve tried to put the pedal in different places (in pedal chain) and it doesn’t work either! :(
I’ve used the TS9 and TS10 (from Ibanez) and I found no problem with it! It really warm the sound with no extra noise! And… mix very well with the Rat!
In my page I have a clip with Rat + Leslie and analog delay. It’s a damn good pedal, but to be honest I prefer the Coloursound with the muff and Butler with fuzz…
Again… thank you for your spectacular work! Greetings from Portugal! ;-)
[Thanks João! I don't think you should blend two distortion pedals. You'll get a lot of feedback and noise problems because of the high gain. It's much better to use a booster or overdrive for boosting the distortion. - Bjorn]
i use the byoc large beaver and behringer to800 and i have to say, the large beaver is my favourite dirt pedal.. very smooth with a tube amp.. still have not found a good setting for the to800 though.. keep messing around with it.. but great article bjorn, was wondering if the to800 is less worthy than its high end cousins and i guess i found my answer!
[Glad you enjoyed the article :) Thanks! - Bjorn]
Once again, great guitar lesson Bjorn ! And one another pedal to buy for my gear. I have difficulties to get a great sound from my byoc large beaver at home, it sounds too tricky, with not enough “rough medium grain”. You convinced me that the RAT should be the one for low volume home work. Thank you very much indeed.
[Yeah, the Large Beaver is my main distortion but as you describe it doesn't sound that good on a small practice amp. The RAT is a perfect alternative. - Bjorn]
Nice article Bjorn,
I totally agree about the RAT – extremely versatile unit, i adore the RAT so much that I have two of them. One, a duecetone RAT (basically two RATs in one pedal) on my board that can be seen in the gallery, and another vintage RAT that I have hanging around for studio use and for a future pedalboard project.
For a cheap RAT clone, you can try the Behringer DM100 Distortion Modeller. I have the usual complaints about behringer pedals (cheap plastic cases etc.) but the RAT setting on this pedal while not an exact match, does a very good job indeed.
On a side note, has anybody has a chance to try the behringer PH9 phaser and DC9 compressor pedals? They seem to be aimed at cloning the MXR pedals.
Cheers
Dean
[Thanks for the tip abut the DM100. I haven't tried the PH9 or DC9... Anyone? - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn. Another great article, thank you. I used to own a Tube Screamer and unless it was used to overdrive my Bassman amp, I just couldn’t get on with it. In that respect, I agree with what Fred said. I’ve always been tempted to buy a Rat and now I think I may. Way to stimulate the economy….LOL. I have to say that I can get so many different sounds out of the Large Beaver with the mids toggle mod. But I’m willing to give the Rat a try now.
[I just got home from rehearsals. My ears are still ringing :) The Large Beaver is by far my fav distortion unit although I haven't tried the mids toggle version. The Maxon OD808 sounds better alone on my Marshall solid state than on my Sound City but I sometimes have the Colorsound set in front of it with a warm clean boost and the tone is dead on David's Shine On, Another Brick, Coming Back etc from PULSE. Very much like the BK Butler with the 12AU7 tube but a bit more creamy and not as boomy. Perhaps more like the Chandler. - Bjorn]
Nice one! The rat is probably the most versatile pedal I’ve ever tried….with some tweaking you can achieve almost every sound you can think of….
Do you think any Tube Screamer could get the job done….or the Ts808 is the one to get?
Cheers!
Leandro
[I've tried a handful of Screamers and I must say the the Maxon sounded a bit smoother than most of them. I guess it's a matter of taste... The ToneLok TS7 is too muddy while the BBE Green Screamer is a surprisingly great sounding budget model. If you've never tried a Screamer before you should keep in mind that they're not as powerful or boomy as the Colorsound or Tube Driver. In comparison it might sound weak but that's what makes the tone too. They're really different types of overdrive. - Bjorn]
Very nice article, I actually found the DS-1 to be a fairly decent budget pedal at low volumes. It’s not the best but for $40 it’s gotten a wide range of Gilmour-esque tones for someone who’s just getting into David’s guitar playing.
This isn’t my video but I think it’s a nice example of what the pedal can do when paired with some delay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ1fWTDMUwY
I can also consider recording some clips of it.
[Personally I think the DS-1 has a bit too much mid range and a bit harsh tone. But I'm sure with some tweaking or perhaps a modified version you'll be able to get some great sounds. - Bjorn]
Hey, Bjorn! Great article and nice clips.
I must say that I’ve been looking for an overdrive unit for a year and still did not found anything satisfying. I had bought the Chandler TD and then sold it, couse it sounded terrible. It was awfully harsh (even supplied with a 12AU7 tube). Just a lo-fi, thin sounded unit. I don’t know what you guys love about it. Maybe I had gotten a wrong version. It was the rack Chandler. The TS sounds nice and I’m considering buying one but there’s still something wrong about it. I think that it’s a little to weak and it steals a lot of guitar attack. Am I right? Have you tried the King of Tone? The samples from the Analogman website sounds very fine.
I’ve got the Large Beaver and Sun Face and both sounds heavenly. I use them at home and don’t hear anything wrong about them on the low volume settings. Highly recommended! But they’re fuzzes and I still want an OD. :)
Cheers
Żarek
[I definitely agree that the Large Beaver and Sun Face are two much better pedals... at least to me they are. Which amp and what kind of pickups did you use with the Chandler? Sounds strange... if you found it thin and lowfi it must have been something wrong. It's everything else than that. Keep in mind too that as with all tube drives stuff you need to let the tube break in for a while. After some weeks the tone cleans up and get much more headroom. - Bjorn]
Where do you think Gilmour used his Tubescreamer for in the 1988-1990 tour? Maybe it was for Dogs Of War? Or Another Brick In The Wall?
I own a Digitech Bad Monkey and it’s a stunning pedal. Definatly as good as a “real” Ibanez or Maxon. They seem to have a bit more gain as well and they are slightly more transparant. Bought it for 30 euro and now my current live setup is just my Les Paul/Strat, the Monkey and my amp. It’s a great box for a fat clean boost or a soloboost on the overdrive channel of my amp (that’s where I use it mainly for) but I’ve never really tried it as an overdrive on the clean channel. Now I heard your clip of the Maxon TS, I will give it a try…
The Rat really seems as a nice and versatile alternative to the Big Muff. Those pedals are sometimes just a bit too noisy and really not what I call versatile.
I really liked your clips and I nearly got a temptation to look for a Rat…
[I have no idea really. The Momentary/Delicate tour was a time of experimentation and a lot of gear swapping. It could have been used for many things, - booster, ovedrive or perhaps just a spare for the TC Booster. There are several Tube Screamer songs on Delicate, - Shine On, Learning to Fly, Dogs of War, Another Brick... - Bjorn]
Hey Bjørn, long time!
Especially this time I really think you captured the big essence of Gilmours guitar! You nailed it as close as one can possibly get. And you proved for all those unexperienced Gilmourheads out there that you don`t need a PULSE-rig to get THE TONE, impressive!
In June I´m taking a trip to “Tigerstaden” heading for Bon Jovi!..
[Hi Thomas! Hope all is well! Thanks for your kind words! Glad you like my clips :) Bon Jovi... that's June 18. right? We're doing an Airbag show on the 7th. Perhaps next time :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
About the Tube Driver:
It was a rack Chandler. It’s an abandoned version but I’ve read mr. Butler’s reviews and he recommended this one. It was manufactured in 80′s. The tube was old. I tried a new one and it sounded simillar. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just my amp – it’s a bright one, totally different from the typical brit stuff. Maybe they just didn’t like each other. :) Or maybe the unit was broken (but I doubt).
Oh, and another thing – I found one OD that absolutely blown my mind: Cornish SS-2. Perfect for me! But it’s soooo expensive! Have you tried it?
[I've only tried the Tube Driver on my Sound City, which is british and more or less identical to the Hiwatts and I guess that as with the Colorsound, this pedal is designed to push these dark, clean amps for a slightly brighter tube overdrive. I think you need that powerful, bouncy clean tone as a basis for these pedals. A typical modern American amp will sound differently I guess. I've tried the SS-2. It's a modified MXR Distortion + really with Cornish' top quality components. There are several great alternatives out there... one of them is the Skreddy Top Fuel. You'll also get similar tones with a RAT or even a Marshall Shredmaster. - Bjorn]
Glad to hear that about the Colorsound and SC combo, Bjorn. I just bought a SC 120 PA amp and am converting the preamp to an early 70′s Hiwatt DR103 4-holer. I simply cannot wait to plug in for the first time with the Colordrive in front. Ho-Chee-mamma!!
[I think you may misunderstood. What I meant was that I sometimes use the Colorsound for boosting the Maxon. That way the Maxon sounds more like the old Chandler. Still, for my main setup I basically use the Colorsound as a basis for all my sounds. I normally set it for a clean volume boost to get that warm, punchy tone and then add the Tube Driver, Large Beaver, Sun Face on top of that for harder rhythms, solos etc (not all at once of course LOL). The Colorsound is one of my all time fav pedals. The tone is just amazing... so unique. - Bjorn]
Hi!!
What doyou think about the BYOC Large Beaver. Do they sound better than the EH Big muff?
[I did some A/B testing with my Learge Beaver and a friend's EH "triangle" Big Muff and they sounded identical. I couldn't hear the difference. It should be added that there are many variations among the early Muffs because EH didn't use the same parts in every pedal but by large they're identical. IMO the Large Beaver is the best "triangle" Muff clone out there. - Bjorn]
Great clips, Bjorn!
Young Lust is one of my favorites (thank god Roger have just said that he’s working on the original Wall concerts for future video release) and you nailed it!
Your conversation with Zarek got me a bit puzzled though(especially ’cause I’m no amp expert).
Of course Hiwatts and Sound Citys are british, but when I read about “British Amps” I think about Marshalls or something like that. On the other hand, I always relate the clean Hiwatts to something more similar to Fenders – yet not so bright.
In that sense, I would think the Hiwatts have a bit more “american” tone than a “british” tone.
Or am I completely wrong?
Luciano
[Thanks Luciano! Well, both Fender and Marshall are American. Hiwatt and Sound City should be regarded as the same amp... both designed by Dave Reeves (that's another topic right there..). I guess what one means by dark sounding British amps is that they don't distort as easily as the American Equivalents. The old Marshall Plexi's were easy to overdrive but the Hiwatts stayed clean no matter what. The treble boosters was designed to make the tubes distort for the same kind of sound. The Colorsound is a step further as the pedal both boosts the volume by 30db or so and acts as an overdrive, which is different from the treble boosters... horrible grammar here but I hope you get the picture. - Bjorn]
Hm. Well, your constant praise for the Colorsound has pretty much convinced me to go for it. Or, at least, a clone of one. A slight deviation, but I’ve heard Jeff Beck used one during the 70s, do you know if there’s any truth to that? I’d like to get in on some of his “Blow by Blow” tone in addition to Gilmour’s…
The Rat, though, is rather intriguing to me. I’m considering getting a Big Muff of some sort, whenever I go about upgrading my gear, but maybe I should try the Rat as well? I’m not really looking for a tone identical to Gilmour’s, though he IS the general basis of my tone, but maybe some additional range would be a good idea? should I at least try out a Rat the next time I go into Guitar Center (basically, the Wal-Mart for guitars here in the States, in case you weren’t aware)?
Then, um, just some general questions.
I’ve been considering both adding a Bigsby to my Epiphone Dot, and putting in at least one humbucker-sized P-90, possibly two. Speaking solely from the Gilmour-tone perspective, any problems with that idea?
Secondly, I’m considering the current run of the Vox AC15 as my next amp, to replace my current Valve Jr. From the Gilmour perspective, any issue with that?
Lastly, do you think you could recommend me a volume pedal of some sort?
And to finish it all off, what the hell is this “Pickle Mod” BYOC is advertising with their Large Beaver? http://buildyourownclone.com/beaver.html ?
*fingers seize up from the typing*
[I'm not sure if Jeff Beck used one but the Colorsound was widely used by many guitarists during the 1970's. I think you'll find the RAT a bit more versatile than the Muff. I prefer the Muff, but it works well for Gilmour tones but it's not really a classic rock kind of pedal. The RAT is a better choice IMO. David's Les Pauls has P-90 pickups. The tone is like a blend of humbuckers and single coil. I don't think you should expect them to sound like a Strat tho... I'm using Ernie Ball volume pedals. They can stand a lot of abuse :) I haven't tried the Vox AC15 so I really can't tell. The Vox in general should give you nice tone. I guess the "pickle mod" is the EQ switcher allowing 4 different types of Muff tones. - Bjorn]
Bjorn, I’m a little confused about Blach Strat’s selector of today; is it still a 3-way or was it updated to a 5 way? Thank you
[It's a 3-way. - Bjorn]
Well, Marshall is in fact british. And probably the most classic british amp of all. The british sound is sometimes refered to as a “brown sound”.
It’s called a dark sound, or “brown sound”, because of the british amp’s pronounced mids. Fender amps have a kind of shimmer in the high treble area. One of the biggest difference is probably due to what output tubes where used; Marshall and Hiwatt both use El34 while Fender use 6L6.
[Oops! Sorry... Of course Marshall is British. I typed without thinking. Thanks for clearing it up. - Bjorn]
“Well, both Fender and Marshall are American. ”
In fact, Marshall is British… unless you’re talking about tone, not the actual origin, then I don’t know.
And I was wondering, don’t you think Boss DS-1 and Boss SD-1 could be good and a bit cheaper replacements for the RAT and the Tubescreamer?
[Yeah... my bad. Of course Marshall is British. I generally think that Boss pedals has a bit too much mid range and a brighter tone compared to the RAT and TS. The many mods are great tho. - Bjorn]
Well, P-90s may not sound exactly like a Strat, but it sounded shockingly close on Remember That Night, wouldn’t you agree? Really surprised me when I first watched “This Heaven” or whatever the song was….
Also, just as a general question, how much info is there floating around about David’s Gretsch Duo Jet? That guitar was always intriguing to me, and I’d love to find out more about it.
[I don't have too much info on the Gretsch. As far as I know it's a pretty standard 1950's model with Bigsby tremolo. David also used the guitar on the 2001/02 semi-acoustic performances and on his firs solo album in 1978. - Bjorn]
[I guess the “pickle mod” is the EQ switcher allowing 4 different types of Muff tones]
This is what BYOC says:
1. standard
2. flat mid
3. mid boost
4. bypassing the tone control (resulting in volume boost)
Here’s a little soundclip of me using the BYOC R.H.
I used the switch in second position (= “flat” mid)
Cheers,
Ernest
who now about the applause pedals?
i have a superd distortion i like a boss
but you know aobut applause?
thanks!
[Nope... Anyone? - Bjorn]
Here a clip (just a demo: bad timing/double tracking!) with the Triangle version
first you’ll hear only the Triangle with delay,
then thew Triangle, TD, Mistress and delay.
I believe, the triangle does sound very authentic and seems very easy to combine with other pedals…
Hey Bjorn I see you got yourself a vintage EH Deluxe Memory Man (70s one, right?)…. I was surprised to see that it’s not on your main board…why is that?
Anyway…..congrats for this new gem!
Leandro
[No, this one's from the mid 90's. It's a great sounding echo unit but I'm a bit ambivalent about it... The tone is very very nice but it has a terrible volume drop. - Bjorn]
Question to Enerst Peske :
Ernest, I have the 4 knobs version of large beaver. What position do you use to get the classic Triangle Big Muff sound, I mean the one that the previous 3 knobs version of large beaver only offers.
Thanks.
“…how much info is there floating around about David’s Gretsch Duo Jet?”
From what I can see, based on the Meltdown DVD and various pictures, David’s Duo Jet is probably a 1958 Gretsch G6128 model which has been modified with a tune-o-matic bridge mounted onto the body.
1958 was the first year Gretsch used “neo-classic” fretboard markers on the Duo Jets, aswell as replacing Dearmond pickups for Filter’trons. The tone knob was also introduced 1958 on this model. In 1959 Gretsch added a zero fret, which David’s guitar doesn’t have.
Franck Machu, you should use the first position (to the left) for the classic Triangle Muff sound.
It’s a great pedal!
Ernest
Just a thought about the ProCo Rat…I have the Digitech DF7 Distortion Factory in my board. It models 7 different distortion/overdrive pedals. It does a good job of modeling the Rat, for those of you looking for a budget Rat. I just sent a pic of my pedalboard, so you can check it out once it gets posted. Thanks for the great articles!
[Thanks for the tip David! I'll post your picture soon. - Bjorn]
Ah, thanks Johan.
Now, what would I have to do to, say, the current Electromatic Duo Jet model to get it in the same tonal ballpark as a vintage Duo Jet? If I were to model one of my guitars after David’s, it’d probably be his Gretsch (and maybe the #0001 Strat. Love the color scheme on that one), so I’m just asking out of curiosity.
What was Gretsch using beforehand, if not the Tune-O-Matic? some sort of roller bridge, maybe?
Evan:
Gretsch use floating bridges on most of their models, the G6128 included. David’s tune-o-matic seem to be mounted onto the body, just as on all Les Paul models. There’s definitely no reason to have a floating tune-o-matic as the bridge is possible to intonate without moving it.
Gretsch have used a lot of different bridges over the years; Tune-o-matic, Space control bridge (roller bridge), “rocking” bar bridge etc. Some better than others. I think tune-o-matic works best.
I really don’t like the Electromatic Pro Jet. I don’t think they have anything but the name in common with Gretsch. A big part of the Gretsch sound too me is in the Filter’tron pickups, which are a very good sounding pickup, preferably TV Jones Filter’trons.
I wouldn’t go for a vintage Duo Jet. Gretsch is owned by FMIC these days and made in Japan while Electromatic is made in Korea. I think they’re building better guitars than ever since Fender bought them.
Hi Bjorn!
Another great article!! Thanks! I just received a Rat II but I was so disapointed! Not because it’s bad, but because it’s really similar to my MI Audio Crunchbox (Have you ever tried this distortion pedal, I’d love to have your opinion about it), the Rat is maybe darker. So I just keep my Crunchbox, it seems that it’s my favourite distortion anyway :)
I plan to change my Bad Monkey for a better model so maybe a Maxon 808… I hesitate with a BD2. I search for a warm overdrive for my Fender clean channel ;)
Thanks again ;)
[Well that's basically the essence of this article, the RAT is one of the most popular distortions made and one of the most copied. The MI Crunch Box is a great sounding boutique clone. The BD-2 is one of my favourite Boss pedals but I think it should be compared to the old boosters like the Colorsound because of its bridght, glassy tone. The 808 is a slightly different pedal, much warmer and compressed. - Bjorn]
Well I think I can clear up a Couple things!!
For Ernest I highly recommend the P-94. It is a P-90 in Humbucker Size. It sorta gives you a PULSE Tone but still that wall tone or OAI. It is great I only use the one cuz I have a 500t in the bridge position.
As for The Gretsch I have an Electromatic Double Jet and I can get the exact same tone as David. They have the same mini-buckers and are very well made. One of the best purchases I’ve made!!!
Hope I cleared up some confusion.
hi bjorn,
can’t remember if I ever pointed this out to you, but as a fellow U2 head you might know anyway, the sobbat db-1 is also a very decent od/fuzz pedal, super versatile, very much between a muff and a fuzz face also. I use it on my home board, I sometimes switch around, but mostly I’m using the db-1 there, it’s great to regulate, also got for lighter od sounds if you are not using too much compression on it! just a thought…
cheers,
bernhard
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
I got me a current duo jet with filtertrons a few months ago, made of european and amercian parts, assembled in japan. although the bigsby is a bit of a nightmare to restring, especially with the lower E string, I love the guitar to bits. it’s perfectly made, and despite everything seems a little loose on the guitar at first (such as the bridge), it’s a very reliable and easy to handle thing.
b.
Hey, great clips. That Marshall amp sounds great. What mic do you use to record with GarageBand? And do you use an interface or just straight in?
thanks!
[Thanks! It's a SM58. I didn't use an interface on these... hence the noise problems. - Bjorn]
Anaon- Please email me at frails@hotmail.com if you are interested in trading your Rat for another Gilmouresque pedal. I have a few pedals to pick from.
First off, Adrian, it’s Evan. ;)
Secondly, uh, yeah, I was considering a pickup in the same vein of a P-94, called the Mean 90. supposed to be quite good for the price, since I’m on a budget and all. look it up, if you’re interested. If
Then again, I might instead put new humbuckers in my Dot, and get a Danelectro for my single-coil needs. it’s hard to say.
Also, thanks for that info on the Double Jet. I hope to have some sort of Gretsch at some point, I’ll have to check out that one. Which sort of pickups does that one have, exactly?
Amazing amazing website!
I own an Analog Man modified TS-9 (the silver mod) and I think it sounds really really good as an 808 clone, I suppose you could add it to your list.
[Thanks Romain! Glad you enjoy the site :) - Bjorn]
Great job man! Very impressive clips and nice reading. Cheers!
[Thanks! - Bjorn]
Sorry Evan lol
umm the gretsch has mini humbuckers it is part of there electromatic models.
It is for someone who doesn’t want to pay $2000 for a gretsch.
here is a link
all the electromatics sound about the same but the shape of that one gives a different sound but it is harder to play sitting down. But I get that tone from Meltdown concert perfectly!!
Dimarzio also makes a humbucker size P-90 called the Bluesbucker it looks like a humbucker but has a dummy coil to cancel noise!!
Hm, okay. Thanks for the additional information, Adrian. I’ll have to do further research….how much do those Bluesbreakers typically go for?
And, uh, Bjorn, I need your opinion on something.
I know you’ve told me in the past that the Boss BD-2 won’t work terribly well with a pedal like the Fuzz Face. However, I’ve found a BD-2 (presumably used) in a local music shop for only $50. I feel like I shouldn’t pass up on it, even if it means I lose the Fuzz Face for a while. Think it’s worth getting before someone else does?
[The BD-2 is a great pedal and a very nice sounding Colorsound-ish budget model. A modified model is to prefer but I definitely think you'll enjoy the stock one too. It's not that the BD-2 fucks up the fuzz but you'll hear that the character of the fuzz tone changes slightly and gets brighter and a bit more fuzz if you like. That's because of the buffers in the Boss pedals. Some doesn't mind or enjoys the tone while others hates it. I guess you just have to figure it out yourself. The BD-2 is very versatile and great for many things so I definitely think it's worth $50 :) - Bjorn]
Well, thanks man. I’ll get my dad to pick it up for me as soon as he can, then. I can always send it in to Keeley later on, if I find I don’t like it as is.
Maybe I’ll record some stuff once I get ahold of it.
Love the site, man. Can’t wait for the next “Early Years” article, the Meddle/Obscured by Clouds era has always held my interest…
[Thanks Evan! - Bjorn]
Picked up a Rat today for $50. It’s one of the early versions with the LM308 IC in it. Its a little noisy but what distortion/fuzz isn’t. Great harmonics with this pedal! I’ve got the modded GE-7 behind it cuz the bass is def lacking without. With? A mandolin and one picture have already fallen off of the wall. Oh the neighbors will love thee!
[Ha ha! That's what rock n roll is all about :) - Bjorn]
Hi,
i love your site……it’s amazing and Gilmour for me is a God
I am an italian guy and i have one Fender american stratocaster with emg dg-20 and my desire is reply the Gilmour sound of pulse live.
I need for 2 pedals in this moment:
1) a real pedal distorsion for have a suond like a comfortably numb (SOLO), sorrow……..
2) a pedal for have a clean creamy sound like a shine on (SOLO), another brick in the wall (SOLO), coming back to life….
basically 2 pedals for have 2 different sounds for a solos
I hope for your answer and i am thankful for this one
Sorry for my English but i belive you understand my question
Thank you very mouch, bye bye
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) I think that both the RAT and the Maxon is the answer to your question. They'll give you the tone you need and versatile enough to cover most of David's tones. If you want to take it up a notch, I suggest a Big Muff (I recommend the BYOC Large Beaver) and a BK Tube Driver. - Bjorn]
[That’s because of the buffers in the Boss pedals] Bjorn.
… I absolutely agree! I did remove my BOSS CS3 and now my Triangle BYOC can “communicate” directly to the pups of my strat. The Muff feels much more interactive and most of all: sweet classic Gilmour sound!
My only BOSS pedal left on my board is the GE7, at the end of the chain (before my Delay). I did bypass it and didn’t notice any difference when the GE7 is in the chain (when OFF).
So I guess it’s a big issue not having a BOSS buffer before a vintage FUZZ/distortion like the Muff.
By the way, is this GE7 mod really a big deal? I don’t use extreme settings with it. …it does provide a nice finishing touch (using the Gilmour settings).
[I haven't tried a modded GE7 so I really don't know... I stopped using EQs with my main board because having either the Colorsound PB or the Tube Driver on for any tone does the same job I think. - Bjorn]
Great article. I have a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive (TS808 clone) and I’m absolutely happy with the way it sounds. Great for bluesy leads and ryhtems.
Thanks for the article !
The Rat is an overdrive but can be used as a distortion, and I would like to know which one to choose between a Fuzz Face and a Rat (I already have a green sovtek “triangle knobs” Big Muff) ?
I love David’s sound but I want a thin disto pedal (the Big Muff is a good one but with a too “big” sound) to play all kind of stuff.
Cheers.
[ I wouldn't say that the RAT is an overdrive. It's a distortion it the truest sense... You can't really compare a Fuzz Face with the RAT. Although the RAT originates from a Fuzz Face they're two different beasts. As I say in the article, I think that the RAT is one of the most versatile distortions out there and you should be able to cover most of David's lead tones and any other musical style. Cheers! - Bjorn]
hey bjorn, evan. re. the byoc pickle mod.
it doesnt refer to the switching, it refers to a mod that gives it waaaay more distortion: ala smashing pumpkins. not recomended for gilmour tones is what i read at the forum. the forum over there is really helpful, ive posted there a bit.
also are you just using your in-built mac microphone to record all this Bjorn? no mic or anything? or plugging giutar into your mac? (i dunno how its done haha) – oh yeh, really nice playing as always. very ummm gilmourish… haha
[Yep, it's the built in mic and camera. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, the RAT settings you described are they mend for the original RAT or for the RAT 2??
[Erm... Both I guess. They're not that different. Depends on your pickups and whether you use a booster/overdrive with it or not. You might want to roll off the gain a bit if you're using EMGs or other hot pickups. - Bjorn]
Hey bjorn hows things,so then off i went and got that rat,oh yes and that maxon,having much fun with this pedal lark i can tell you.Cheers for your time and recomemdations my friend although i still donr know to much about wahat im doing im getting hours of fun out of it.I have also aquired one mistress delux,dynacomp and that giga boss delay thing,only because it lets me dial in the delay timings,a godsend wouldnt have had a clue otherwise,think im getting his bleeding pedal bug though as am wanting to try that nova thingy now hehe,and to think a couple of months ago i thought you lot were all mad.i picked up an oldish strat 86 i think or 84 whit colour,maple neck from that japan place.Love it…..for now hehe.So heres the tip im after,bloody noisey when alls on i can tell ya,hiss hum you name it,if ts not ment to be there i can tell you it is,any tips on how to reduce this noise,i know my playing is not good so i get loads of finger scraping noises and string notes when i touch them when bending i gotta expect that but bloody hell are these pedal things ment to amplifi every thing i do,so will this noise reduction pedal thingy actually help as ive noticed there isnt one on any of your boards,any thoughts .Keep this site going bjorn its great.Good luck to you
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you find my site useful... even if it costs you a lot of money :) Noise is caused by a number of things. Vintage style single coil pickups are noisy by nature. You can shield the inside of the guitar with some copper foil, which will reduce some of the noise. Cheap instrument and patch cables are often the biggest source of noise. I always recommend spending a little extra on some good quality shielded cables. When you're using a lot of pedals you're bound to experience some noise... even when they're off. Using high gain distortions and compressors will enhance noise and especially when you combine them. You should also make sure that the power cables aren't touching the instruments cables and that you don't have too many pedals on the same power loop. Also, if you're playing at home you'll get interference from all kinds of things, - mobile phones, TV, radio, lights, computers etc... Using a noise suppressor will take away some noise but it's not an ideal solution because it will also drain some signal and cut some sustain. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!
on my board at the moment i have a rat2 and im using the throbak overdrive boost which at times i switchout with my actual coloursound powerbooster/overdriver and a keeley ts9 plus modded tubescreamer…they sound great together but.. i also have a little big muff reissue and a ronsound modded big muff…i was thinking about puting one of the muffs on my board along with the rat2 and if so which one?…i also on the other hand have a BOSS GE7 boosting the low frequencies for the rat2… so is it really necessary to put the big muff on the board along with the rat2 or not? and also if there is anyway possible to give me a good setting for the BOSS GE7 to tone the rat up to big muff standards could you please send me somthing to show me the proper settings on the GE7 or try to tell me the settings?
thanks alot! you have been of great help to me in my gilmour tone quest. :) i would SERIOUSLY be lost without your site!
-hunter
[I think it's up to you to decide whether you want both the Muffs and the RAT on your board. If you think they all need to be there then go for it. I often recommend the RAT if you're only playing at home because it much easier to get great tones with it compared to a Muff, which usually needs a cranked tube amp to reach its full potential.
I can't really suggest any EQ settings because the nature of such an effect is to adjust certain frequencies depending on your rig - guitar/pickups, amp and effects. You might also realize that some situations requires more adjustment that others, like playing at home compared to on a large stage. You need to find the settings and frequencies that fits your rig. In general I think that the RAT needs more bass and a Muff could do with some mids for a typical PULSE tone. Please read more about creating your tone in this article. Thanks for your support! - Bjorn]
hey bjorn just read all your pickup info so got your reccomendations mate.still would like to know if anyone knows about that noise problem though,cheers again
hey bjorn hope your good,regaurding noise problems and picking up interference from every bloody thing else i was hoping some one out there could help.im living in sweden and the plugs have only two pins so i take it that means there is no direct earth,when i put my finger on the meteal plug of a patch cable and then touch the radiater all the hum hiss and crap disappears.now is there any way of overcomng this problem saftley surely i cant be the only one to have this problem.anyone came across the same problem.heres a bag of worms im gonna be searching for a reasonably priced amp for the bedroom,any ideas.say between 150 to 300 pounds.by the way nice comfortably numb tuturiol that bjorn.ever thought about a pedal use tutoriol,now im sure that would be popular.what do you recon,todays tutorial the numb solo tone.all the best mate and thanks
[Well, I'm no expert on noise but I think the best way to eliminate noise is to use shielded cables, including patch cables, shield the inside of your guitar and the pickups should be waxed or potted. Don't play in a room with TVs, radios, computers etc and turn off your mobile phone. Be careful with which pedals you combine and keep in mind that the more effects you add the more hum and hiss you'll get. It's hard to get around that... even with the most expensive gear. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
And yet another question… if I’m boosting my RAT should the volume on my TS9 be louder than the RAT? I’m not totally sure how to actually “boost” it. Also, have you ever thought of expanding the webpage to include other artists like Clapton, Hendrix etc?
[Clapton who? Nope, this is a Gilmour site... How the volume should be set depends on what tone you're looking for. For a bright Animals/Island kind of tone I'd set the RAT to around 2:00 and the TS at 3:00. For a warmer PULSE tone you can roll off the TS volume to around 1:00. Try different settings and decide on what sounds best for your rig. - Bjorn]
Wow thanks for the great review and awesome playing of yours really impressive!!!
I don’t play guitar that long but I love the sounds of Pink Floyd and try to play as much as my ability to play allows me until now.
I just have one question this more a general understanding question than technical but if I understand right what you say in your article you say that the combination of a tube screamer and Big muff or rat give a very power full combination. So it’s either a Big Muff or a rat not both?
Oh and one more question is the Ibanez TS9 really that differentiable from the Maxxon or the TS808? it is really a lot cheaper so I am just asking myself if it is worth spending a little more?
thanks for your help!!!
I love your website,
Jan
[Use only one distortion at a time, - Muff + overdrive or RAT + overdrive. The TS9 is very similar to the Maxon. - Bjorn]
Hi, Bjorn — I just bought a US ’57 Reissue strat (I’m thinking about getting the CS ’69 pickups) and a Fender Blues Junior amp. I primarily play at home in my apartment (and don’t want to blow my neighbors heads off). Which effects pedals should I be looking at: 1) BYOC Large Beaver and Colorsound Power Boost or 2) the RAT and the Maxon? Thanks for the help.
[I'd definitely go for the RAT/Maxon combo. It's not impossible to get great tones with a Muff and Colorsound but they tend to get a bit too agressive and boomy for a smaller rig. The RAT and Maxon will produce great tone no matter what... - Bjorn]
Fantastic article as always Bjorn, really good read, nice tone and playing in your clips also!
Phil
[Thanks! - Bjorn]
Hi, I have a Fender Stratocaster Highway One from 2006 and I just got a Fender Twin Reverb Reissue. The tone from Gilmour I like the more is from the live at Gdansk. I can play loud with my amp something la 5 if it can tells you how loud it is. I’m looking for a fuzz and an overdrive. You said that non true-bypass or buffer pedal fucks up the fuzz. I’ve read that it’s only for the germanium fuzz so I don’t know who to trust. But if the buffer pedals fucks silicon fuzz face then I don’t think the Maxon would be a good idea. If so do you think the Fulltone OCD wich is true-bypass would be good for me? (I can’t afford a Tube Driver) And for the fuzz I’ve heard good thing about the dunlop Hendrix Fuzz (not the red one the like blue one) wich is a reproduction of the BC108 fuzz face. What do you think about it?
[All vintage style fuzz units will be affected by buffered pedals. Germanium transistors are a bit more sensitive but the silicons are no better. As goes for vintage style overdrives and boosters too really. My Colorsound Power Boost can't stand buffered pedals. The OCD will work much better than the Maxon although it's a slightly different sound. You should also check out the BYOC Overdrive and BBE Green Screamer, which both are true bypass clones of the Maxon/Ibanez 808. - Bjorn]
Well, regarding Antoine’s issue, isn’t the Maxon true-bypass???
But I have yet another question for you, Bjorn.
It’s about the Boss HM-2.
On About Face gear page you say that “it sounds very much like a RAT with a classic Marshall distortion. Very fat and compressed”.
But you haven’t mentioned the HM-2 on this article, neither on the new Buyer’s Gear Guide, as an alternative to the Rat.
I know you couldn’t list everything on the buyer’s guide, but what do you think about it?
I must say that I’ve just got an used HM-2 a couple of weeks ago and I’m finding it very easy to achieve good tones with it.
Cheers,
Luciano.
[Nope. The Maxon is buffered. The HM-2 has indeed a tone similar to the RAT but I do prefer the RAT. The HM-2 can be a bit too bright and hars I think without an overdrive placed behind it. Another reason I didn't mention it is the fact that it's deleted. Anyway, cool pedal. - Bjorn]
Hi, I’ve got another question for you. You said that if I put the Maxon wich is a buffered pedal after the fuzz it’s not good. But in another artical you suggest to put a buffered delay pedal a the end. Won’t it fuck the fuzz??
[Well, yes but not all rigs have a fuzz. I was talking generally. Fuzz units are some strange creatures and they tend too loose much of their character when you introduce buffered pedals. Some goes better than others tho. As an example - the Sun Face that I have works nicely with the Japanese Boss pedals and the Ibanez Tube Works DE-7. However, it can't stand newer Boss pedals, vintage style Ibanez and Maxon. - Bjorn]
Well, I guess you’re right. The OD-808 isn’t true bypass.
But the Maxon AD-9 (similar to the Ibanez TS-9) is true bypass, according to Maxon site and AnalogMan’s faq.
That’s why I got confused.
Cheers.
Luciano.
Hi there, I have recently got a BYOC large beaver as per your recomendation, however, i am not sure which spec to do it as, i am trying to re create the Gdansk tone, and i wondered what u think which spec would re-create that tone the best
Thanks in advance
Phil
[David mainly used the G2 and P1 on the tour and a triangle Big Muff that was mainly used on Echoes. The closest match would be a "ram's head" clone. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! I was wondering, on the B.Y.O.C. what is the main difference in the triangle and ram’s head version? I can’t decide which one I like more!
[The triangle was the first Muff released in '71. It has a brighter tone and more sustain compared to the '73 ram's head, which has more gain. David used the ram's head on Animals, DG78, Wall, Final Cut but either will give you a great tone. Personally I prefer the triangle. - Bjorn]
Bjorn, is it true that by changing Circuits at the TS7 you can get the sound of a 808?
Cheers, Gabriel!
[I have no clue... probably... but they're very similar anyway. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Have you tried the new Jekyll and Hyde V2 pedal? i hear that its very good, and if you have, do you think that it could cover some of the later David tones? Its 2 pedals in one, a OD based on the OD-808 and a distortion of some kind – and in England, its all that for the cost of less than a TS-808, just wondered what your views on the pedal could be if you have tried tested it in the process of making your new buyers gear guide, which i must say, is fantastic
Thanks for any help you give me
Phil
[Hi Phil! I haven't tried it... Heard many positive comments but I really can't tell. - Bjorn]
Can someone enlighten me on the proper hookup of the RAT to the OD8808 to the guitar and amp?
Thanks,
Jess
[guitar > rat > od808 > amp. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I there a specific reason why you chose the OD808 instead of the OD-9, which, according to Maxon’s web site, is sonically indentical to the OD808, but has a true bypass switch instead of a FET switch?
Cheers,
Holger
[No specific reason really. I bought it used... It's on my backup board with a mix of true bypass and buffered pedals so it really doesn't matter. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Can you tell me what settings you would recommend for the lead in “Comfortably Numb” for a Rat and an OD808? Or do you recommend a Big Muff in the mix or somthing else? I’m using a 10 watt Hiwatt amp.
Thanks,
Jesse
[Settings depends very much on the pickups and the guitar in general as well as the amp and its settings... among other things. I usually set mine like this: RAT all knobs at about 2:00 o'clock - OD808 gain 10:00, tone 9:00 and volume at 3:00. Use this as a reference and find a setup that sounds OK for your rig. - Bjorn]
Very, very intresting article, Bjorn!!
I like a lot he sound of the RAT, it’s a fat distorion and very versitile. Combined with a Tube Driver, it must scream.
I have another of my annoying questions (xD):
Does that RAT sound like an Marshall overdrive, or you can make a Marshall sound like the RAT?
Thanks!
[Glad you enjoyed the article :) The RAT was originally based on the tone you get from a germanium Fuzz Face and humbucker pickups. Kind of a hot wired Fuzz Face, although not technically based on it. The RAT is in the same tone family as the MXR Distortion + and the Marshall Shredmaster pedals and the Marshall JCM 800 amps. I have a small 50w 5210 Marshall combo at home, which is the transistor version of the JCM800 series and I'm having a hard time hearing the differences between its gain channel and the RAT. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
First of all I want to say thank you so much for this site. I’ve been quite obsessed with it the past couple months. I started a band not too long ago that is going in the more Pink Floyd/King Crimson/ Mahavishnu Orchestra vein and its really been a watershed for my playing. I’ve always been all about amp distortion, but my tastes and understandings of tone are changing now thanks to your in depth site.
I am trying to use pedals now instead of amp distortion as I want a pristine clean sound as well (my Mesa .50 cal has a unified eq, it sounds fantastic as a clean amp btw). I am starting to slowly amass my new pedal based rig and I recently bought a maxon 808. I am pairing that with a Rocktron Blackjack distortion/booster pedal for now and I have a couple questions about volume adjustment as well as an in general question for how to use an od/dist setup.
First off, I am trying to figure out how accurately set my volumes with my other guitarist who for now uses his amp distortion. The trouble is that I basically have three different volumes to adjust now whenever we need to turn down or anything (the clean amp volume, the OD, and the pedal dist). So without pissing off the rest of my band mates, what is the best way to set all three accurately on the fly so that they are at unity volume?
My second question is how do you use your boosters/od in general? Do you always have the OD/booster on for a dirty sound and turn on the distortion only for leads? Or do you have the distortion as your crunch tone and then use the OD/booster for leads?
Thanks so much!
-Bryce
[I think you should set the amp volume to the desired level and find the unity level from the two stomboxes. Or get a volume pedal. I base all my sounds on one booster or overdrive, either a clean volume boost or regular overdrive depending on the song and tone that I want. Then I add the distortion for solos. Clean volume boost + distortion = smooth punchy distortion. Overdrive + distortion = aggressive tone with lots of sustain. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I just had the chance to compare the OD808 and the OD-9 by Maxon. They are nearly identical sonically, but – to my surprise – not completely! To my ears, the OD808 sounds just a bit smoother, rounder, and more open than the OD-9, which is slightly grittier. Contrary to what is said on Maxon’s website, both pedals have the same amount of gain.
All in all, the difference between them is very small, but I actually like the OD808 a tiny better, even though it doesn’t have a true bypass. Both are great sounding pedals, though.
I also tested the Maxon D&S and I absolutely love it! It produces really smooth, slightly aggressive transistor distortion that never sounds thin or too fuzzy. With an overdrive behind it becomes even smoother. It sounds great with a tube amp and it is one of the really few distortions that my ears can stand in front of a transistor amp.
I think that the D&S would definitely deserve a place on your list of Big Muff replacements. I even like it better than the Skreddy Top Fuel because the distortion of the D&S sounds more complex.
I can highly recomment all three pedals! (I should probably add that I’m in no way affiliated with Maxon – I’m just enthusiastic about these pieces of gear)
Keep on with your great work on this site! I hope your Richard Wright tribute was a success; I would love to read something about it… (maybe including some sounds?)
Best wishes,
Holger
[Thanks for the info Holger! I agree that Maxon pedals have a great tone. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!
love the site!
in your opinion…i have a Little Big Muff reissue and a RAT2…i am boosting one of them with a BD2 and a keeley TS9/808 plus mod…if you were to pick just one to keep on the board for a strickly all around gilmourish tone which one would you put on the board the LBM or the RAT2?
thanks alot!
[Depends entirely on your amp and pickups... and your ears. Both pedals can sound wonderful on the right setup and like crap on another rig. Personally I think the RAT is much more versatile than the Big Muff, but it can also be a bit dull and average. - Bjorn]
Personally I just picked up a Fulltone OCD pedal and love the sound of it. It’s listed as a overdrive/distortion unit as clarified on the box.
hey Bjorn,
I got the vintage S model assembly fitted on my lite ash strat and damn it sound Goooooooood.
I wanted to ask you tht u made ur bridge float a bit.So could u explain wat to do after i tighten the screws down to the plate.
Plz lemme know…..
thanks & regards,
Anmol
[Mine is slightly floating... I can't pull it upwards but there's a 2-3mm gab when you see it from behind. I've tightened all the 6 plate screws and adjusted the two claw screws in the back all the way until the plate is flat on the body. Then I loosen them until the arm feels as smooth as possible. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn!I’ve just bought the hartman distortion (rat-clone) cos’ it seemed to me really interesting but I’m still waiting it to arrive and I was wondering what you think about it. Have you ever heard it?I’m in the perpetual research of a gilomurish-tone so it would be great if the hartman can nail it. Anyway thx for the great work you do cos you allow lot of people (me too :P) to feel like a little gilmour, even if only for the time of a solo. You’re great. Sorry for my terrible english but I’m Italian.
Best wishes,
Gae.
[Thanks for your kind words Gae! I've never tried the Hartman but it's based on the RAT with some new mods and I think it will be perfect for many of David's tones. The RAT is one of my favorite distortion pedals. Extremely versatile. Let us know what you think when you've tried it! - Bjorn]
Well Thank you again for your time. At one time I had the BK Butler TD and changed the tube and placed the JJ 12AU7 inside. Very warm sound but sold the dam thing. I always check your videos out on youtube and I like the boss bd-2 sound with your maxon od808 just sounds fantastic. I ordered the analogman Boss BD-2 because I was not feeling Keeleys Mod sounded to brittle and weak. So my question is I love pulse era and On an Island sound just amazing sound. If you have extra time to read this is my setup any suggestions please let me know. 2= T-rex Replicas Delays, Absoultley Analog Ratzo, AA GREEN RUSSIAN, MAXON 808, AA FIST, Howard Davis Mod Deluxe ElectRic Mistress, Boss CE-2, NANO PHASER, Boss TU-2. I love Absolutley Analog pedals thanks for the info on your website. I play through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.
PS Do I need a Boss GE-7?
[I think you should be able to get a nice OAI tone with this setup. What kind of guitar/pickups do you use? Try these settings on your amp: bass 50%, treble 50-60%, mids 40%. The BD-2 and Fist are great alternatives for the Tube Driver and I think I'd go for the Green Russian as the main distortion unit. You could also use the Maxon for smoother PULSE type of overdrives. I don't think EQs are a must but check out this article for some tips. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
I had a question about the BK butler TD with the bias knob. I know you have the standard model but I was wondering if you had any experience with the bias knob model? Basically all I want to know is if I were to get the bias knob one, could I still get it to sound like the standard one?
Thanks,
Bryce
[I haven't tried the one with bias control but I think it's the same as the standard just that you can adjust the amount of gain with the bias trim pot. I would imagine that setting the bias at either 0 or 10 will make sound as the standard. - Bjorn]
Bjorn-
Any thoughts about whether the pick-ups on an Eric Johnson Strat will work for a “Gilmour” sound or are the too “hot”?
I appreciate the work you have put into this site.
Rick
[I don't have any experience with those... Anyone? - Bjorn]
I have the DG-20 emg set could not resist and I really dig them. Thanks for your help again, by any chance have you ever tried the Demeter Fuzz-1 ? I listen to some clips and read reviews seems to be a nice alternative to ss3/G2 with some stacking and tweaking with other pedals of course. -Thanks Again-
[I've tried the Demeter fuzz a couple of times. Great pedal and very versatile. I think it's a bit too "fuzzy" to be compared with the SS3 but it can produce some nice Fuzz Face/G2 sounds. Check out this review. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Great content, as usual. Quick question for you on pedal order:
I have a RAT 2, Maxon OD808, and a EH Soul Preacher Compressor. Can you tell me your suggested order of arrangement?
I saw your earlier suggestion of (guitar->RAT->OD808->amp) but I’m wondering where the compressor should go in this chain. I’m guessing before the RAT?
Thanks a lot,
Marc
[Hi Marc. I recommend this order: guitar > comp > rat > od808 > amp. Please see this article for more basic tone tips. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Rick / Bjorn,
I own an EJ Strat and I would say it’s fine for producing Gilmour-like tones, especially the more vintage 70s-era tones. It’s definitely not going to be mistaken for David’s EMG Strat, but the guitar is actually amazingly flexible in terms of the type of sounds you can get out of it.
Besides that, it plays like a dream. I love it and would highly recommend it to anyone considering it.
Marc
Bjorn-
I would like to achieve a gilmourish tone that was heard on the recent live recordings (Remember that Night, Live in Gdansk, and On an Island) I have an EH Big Muff, in your opinion, which overdrive, or other pedals will I need in combination with the Muff, to achieve that sound?
Thanks for all the work you’ve put into this site.
[That depends very much on what guitar/pickups and amp you have. Let me know and I'll try to help. - Bjorn]
Have you ever tried the boss OD-20? its one of those twin pedals and three of the simulations are a RAT, a Big Muff and a Fuzz Face. If so, do you think the simulations sound accurate?
[Hei Eirik! I don't own the OD20 my self but from memory I remember that the Muff sim was very similar to the new US model. Perhaps even a little closer to the green Sovtek. The RAT sounded great although I couldn't hear much difference between the RAT and the Distortion + sims. The Fuzz is based on the germanium Fuzz Face. - Bjorn]
Well I have a Epiphone Les Paul Standard w/ Bigsby w/ stock pickups,(isn’t the best for Gilmour tone) and a Canadian made Traynor 40w tube amp, which is similiar to many Fender tube amps, I appreciate the help!
[I think I'd go for a Tube Screamer. Ibanez TS9 or Maxon OD808. They're a bit more versatile for this kind of setup than a Tube Driver. You might also want to check out a Robert Keeley Boss BD-2. - Bjorn]
Hey, great website! I was looking at getting a Rat 2, but on Robert Keeley’s website he says the latest ones getting made in China aren’t great at all; have you tried any Rat 2 models produced in 2008 with a serial # above 300,000? Notice if there is a lack of quality distortion compared to other models?
[I haven't tried the new models no. I recommend getting a Kelley version though. - Bjorn]
I have a Marshall JVM 210 with a 1960A Lead Cab. I am trying to decide which muff I should get. I am deciding between: BYOC Triangle and Ram’s head, Sovtek muff, or an actual vintage ram’s head. Any suggestions?
[I've never tried the 210 but set it up for the cleanest tone possible and I think I'd go for a Sovtek preferably a Ciwil War or green model. - Bjorn]
So if the new models are lesser in quality, I was wondering if the MXR distortion 3 would be a better choice? That one’s getting rave reviews.
[Haven't tried it. Anyone? - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, i really learned alot from this very informative website. Anyway, i have a question: Which should come first in the BD-2/OD808 setup??? the BD-2 or the Maxon OD-808???
[Thanks for your kind words! I like to have the BD-2 setup for a clean volume boost placed first since it has much more bass that the OD808. You'll get the warmt and fat lower end from the BD-2 and the crisp smooth overdrive from the OD808. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! Thanks for the response. There is a Red Army overdrive muff in Civil War clothes in mint condition on ebay. Is that the same as the green muff and the civil war muff and is it worth going for? Once again I have the JVM 210.
[I've never tried the Red Army model but I assume it's pretty close to both the Civil War and Green models. It's the very first Muff reissue Mike Matthews made after closing down Electro Harmonix and starting Sovtek sometime around 1990. The pedal is very rare so I wouldn't hesitate! - Bjorn]
On the serious budget end, I picked up a Danelectro Cool Cat Fuzz..for only £40!..you can get them for around $29! in U.S. metal casing..true bypass..and a great thick lead tone thats very articulate and responsive..been using it alot live…gonna check out the Cool Cat Vibe soon!
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Unfortunately the Red Army Overdrive was bid up to $300 and the reserve was not met :( . Luckily though, there was a green muff that was in pristine condition that I went for:) .
[As far as I know there's not much difference between the two. I love my green Muff! - Bjorn]
Check this out..anyone ever heard or used one????
Hi ! First of all, thanks a lot for this wonderfull website.
I don’t see the MXR GT-OD (overdrive) in your website ans I tried it in a shop. I found it rather good and I “compared” it to TS808, TS7/9 and Maxon OD-808 thanks to Youtube, even if it’s not the best way. Does anyone know if MXR match/correspond with Gilmour sound ?
[I've never tried the GT-OD so I can't tell. In general, MXR is definitely a match for David's sounds. His 70's boards included a Dynacomp and Phase 90 and he has been using MXR delay rack units since 1977. The Carbon Copy makes a great analog delay for those Binson sounds and the Distortion + goes well with some of the milder distortions and overdrives around Delicate and PUSLE. The new Fuzz is excellent for that Pompeii tone. - Bjorn]
Hi there!
im a big fan of the web, is really cool to make a site like this.
i just came to give you a small tip on a clone of the pro co rat.
I own a carl martin crush zone which in my little experience sound pretty much the same, i would try to upload a video to give an example
I dont know how much it cost in dollars but in my country is about a hundrer dollars
good luck and keep up the good work :)
[Thanks for your kind words and for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi, Thank you for this fantstic site! I have a question for you.. Have you ever tried the Fulltone OCD?? What do you think about this pedal? Can I use this pedal like a boost for a BYOC Large Beaver? Thank you,Bye
[The OCD is very similar to the Colorsound Powerboost. I'm not sure if it's actually based on it but they're very similar. It has a nice range from clean volume boost to warm overdrive. Works very well as a booster for distortions etc. - Bjorn]
Hello! Thanks for this article.
It’s know that, in order to get a natural overdrive from a tube amp with a booster (not an O/D pedal), we need to crack it.
Is this still true when we use power attuators to put the amp on the maximum volume wthout blowing windows away?
Thanks by advance! Bye.
[I don't have much experience with power attenuators but the whole idea is to lower the volume without loosing any tone or character. However, the tone you get from an amp isn't just the tubes it's also very much from the speakers and the dynamics caused by volume. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
I was wondering if u could advise me on an overdrive pedal. Currently I am using a Fender EJ strat, all stock, going into an SD-1,AA Green Russian, and MXR Carbon Copy, all going into the front of a Fender Deluxe Reissue. I am looking to upgrade the SD1 as I feel its not the best overdrive pedal in the world. I am looking for something that could cover The Wall and especially DSOT and PULSE. I have narrowed it down to 2 pedals, both being roughly in the same price range – the Maxon OD 808, and the Keeley Blues Driver, both of which, I feel are very good pedals, however, I am unable to choose between, I am thinking about the OD808 though. Also, have you had any experience with the EJ guitar? I find that the neck PU is very bassy and boomy with the Green Russian, and am hoping that the OD can balance that out.
Thanks in Advance
Phil
[First of all I don't think you should base your pickups on using the neck with a Big Muff. That rarely sounds good so I'd use mostly the bridge for pedals as bassy as the Muff. The Maxon is perhaps the most versatile of the two and it can cover most of David's tones - PULSE especially with boosted mid range. However, the BD-2 is a much better choice for David's ealier tones and the modified version do have a much more balanced tone that could fit nicely as a substitute for David's Tube Driver. Based on the amp you're using I think I'd go for the BD-2. - Bjorn]
Hi, Just got a Crowther Hot Cake fantastic overdrive pedal..great if used as a boost too! also using Danelectro Cool Cat Vibe check that out…it only cost me £40 new!!..does Gilmour..and Hendrix!! :)
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Thanks for your reply – which modded BD 2 do u suggest i go for? Keeley or Analogueman?
Thanks
[I like the Keeley. It's a bit warmer than the Analogman. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
Thankyou for your wonderful site, I have very much enjoyed your insights!
I have been looking into getting an overdrive or booster for a while now. I am a student on a budget, but I don’t want to compromise! I was looking at both the keeley and analogman true bypass modded tube screamers, but could not decide. The keeley has a more balanced eq with less mid range hump and the drive can be turned lower for a better clean boost. However analogman says changing the eq in this way loses a lot of the tube screamer character. You can get the analogman with an extra “bad bob” boost circuit inside but it is even more expensive and looks a bit weird.
I’ve been looking for a “third way” and I think I may have found it in the new byoc overdrive 2 kit. This can be built to ts-808 specs and has a switch to change the eq from normal mid hump to balanced to fat, a switch to change between 3 different clipping modes, and internal trim pots to change the drive range to be stock like the analogman or extended like the keeley! It even has an extra independant boost circuit and being a kit is much cheaper too!
What do you think Bjorn, is this too good to be true?
The boost circuit can be built as either a silicon or MOSFET circuit. It is possible to run the MOSFET circuit at 18V too. Which would you recommend for boosting a big muff/RAT or fuzz? I know it is not quite a colorsound powerboost but it is a start right?
Thanks for your help!
[I must agree with Analogman that the Keeley mod takes away much of the Tube Screamer character. There's a lot of pedals copying the screamer but the very essence of teh screamer is the mid range - like it or not. The BYOC kits are very good and as you say the overdriver is an excellent option for a straight clone with several cool features. Just be sure to know what you do if you decide to solder your self or get a preassmbled pedal. There's a link on the BYOC site to a licensed dealer. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, thanks for your reply!
Good to hear you agree with analogman, I was close to getting the keeley at one point but I’m glad I didn’t as I don’t want to lose that classic tone. I’m sure it is still a great pedal but not for me.
I was wondering if you had an opinion on the choice of MOSFET or silicon boost for the BYOC overdrive. This is a new feature of the kit since this January. I presume it’s similar to two of the options on their triboost kit (the third being a germanium rangemaster clone). Which would you recommend for boosting a big muff?
Thanks again!
[It's apples and oranges really. Both works fine and it's not a huge difference between the two. Mosfet has a bit more mdi range and silicon has a brighter tone like the Colorsound Powerboost. In terms of a modern style overdrive pedal, the mostfet would be more fitting I guess. - Bjorn]
Hello again Bjorn!
Well I built the byoc overdrive 2 and am very happy. It is very nice to be able to change the eq with a switch.
I built the boost to silicon specs for the brighter more powerboost-like tone. I must say it sounds really good boosting my muff, now I can see where Mr. Gilmour is coming from.
I like it so much I am thinking of getting a proper power boost. I live in England and I popped into Macari’s the other day but they are now selling for £169! I’m sure it is worth it but it’s lucky you got yours when you did!
I am wondering what your reasons would be for recommending one of these reissues over say the Throbak Overdrive Boost clone. Surely as a straight clone it should sound identical? I am no expert however! It just seems a good option with it’s smaller case and switchable additional features.
[Well, getting a real Colorsound is definitely worth it but the best clone I've come across is the VintageFX Colordrive, which also features the master volume knob for more boost. The Absolutely Analog is a straight clone of the original Powerboost without the master volume. The Throbak is also good but I'd still go for the VintageFX. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
First of all, thanks so much for your amazing site and all these precious information you share. You do fantastic job, thank you !
I’m have the Throbak overdrive boost and I’m a little bit disapointed with it, sound is very “agressive”, especially when when gain is set high: I have difficulties to describe it, but it seems there are “bad” harmonics (see this guy at 1min45 for an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPoLt89onkI ). Finaly, I’m not able to color the the BYOC large beaver I have before the throbak. I don’t have a colorsound so I can’t compare with it.
When I put my maxon808 after the Throbak, the sound is very sweet, but I lose the flexibility that the throbak give me with its treble and bass setting.
Do you think it’s due to the pedal itself ? Can it come from my amps (Fender Super reverb reissue, so with 10 inches speakers) ? I have to precise I play at home so with “home level” (to loud for my wife… ;-)).
Thanks Bjorn,
And “longue vie a Gilmourish”
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you like my site :) I've only tried the ThroBak a couple of times but it's pretty close to the original Colorsound. What kind of guitar/pickups do you have? As you can hear on the YouTube clip, the pedal sounds a lot different compared to David's tones with humbuckers and other hot pickups. The Fender amp you have might also be a bit too small for the tones you want. There's nothing wrong with the pedal but to get that fat, smooth clean boost David has on many of the songs he used it you really need an amp with as much headroom as possible... which is described in the article. I mainly use my Colorsound as a clean boost with the bass at 12:00, gain around 11:00 and the treble at 9:00. The master on the side of the pedal is set around 50-60%. This should produce a nice loud clean boost with a slight crunch. Adjust the gain for more or less overdrive. As I've explained in the article, a Boss BD2 (preferably modified for a better tone) or similar might be a better choice for smaller amps and lower volume. - Bjorn]
Thanks for your reply,
I use Fender CS60 strats so pickups are the stock ones. Maybe too boomy for David’s tone (I didn’t try the 69 or 54). Concerning my Super Reverb, as you say it may be not appropriate as it quickly reaches its natural overdrive zone (for a very nice bluesy sound !).
Ok, let’s keep the Throbak at home… and find a good”gilmourish” amp.
Thanks again
PS: great article on “Dogs”, please watch my version (and my pig).
[Thanks for sharing the clip! Nice playing and tone. If I can give you a tip you need to work on your timing a bit but all in all very good! - Bjorn]
Hello again Bjorn,
Just to let you know I went for a reissue Power Boost from Macari’s in the end.
Thought you might like to know that the man in the shop said they had just started making it in a new version these last few months. They have changed the circuit to include an additional preamp transistor, presumeably like in the throbak, although it can’t be turned off.
This worried me at first after what you’d said about changing a super simple circuit. However when the man said they’d done this redesign “for Dave Gilmour” I was reassured!
Haven’t had time to explore it fully but will be having fun with it this week!
[Interesting info! Thanks! - Bjorn]
I have read all the above with interest but I do need help.
I am trying to get a Gilmour tone, I have just purchased a Line 6 Flextone 111 amp and have tried to get some form of distorted or overdriven Gilmourish tone with no luck.
The amp gives a very good clean tone with lots of reverb and delay choice buy I have a real headache with the distorted thing-I tried a BYOC big muff and it just sounds a big mess.I did try the Behringer vintage overdrive and that gives some good tone but nothing like what I am after.Can you or any visitors to the site help.Just a note on the Web site ,ITS FANTASTIC thanks for all your hard work.
Regards
Steve B
[Hi Steve! Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) I'm not familiar with the Flextone. How's your settings? If you're using pedals with it you should clean channel only and use different combinations of overdrive and distortion to create your gain sounds. Try these settings on your amp: bass 50%, treble 40-50%, mids 40% and set the master to about 1/3 of the channel volume. What kind of guitar do you have? Pickups?
As I've tried to explain in the article, a Big Muff and the Tube Driver might not be the best choice for smaller amps as these are basically designed to drive powerful tube stacks. In any case they will sound different on smaller amps and lower volume. As suggested, I'd check out a RAT for distortions and a Tube Screamer or a Blues Driver for overdrives. They're all ideal for "home rigs" and tehy should fit most budgets.
Keep in mind that tone isn't just stompboxes. You can have a duplicate of David's rig (if that's your goal) but the amp and guitar/pickups also need to be similar to his. I've tried to cover this in the Buyer's Gear Guide articles. Please check out the Designing The Rig article too for some general tone tips. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
I’m thinking of changing my ods and distortion set up; i curently have a modtone speedbox distortion, a boss sd-1 and a behringer to800. I put the to800 up for sale but im not sure if I should after hearing how useful it could be as a booster/TS clone. I’m thinking of buying a a little big muff or a RAT as my primary distortion (leaving the modtone on the bench); i also wonder whether the bd-2 would be a good colorsound alternative for me (the CS is too big and too dear for my board) – so basically i want to know what i should go with:
little big muff/RAT?
SD-1/to800/BD-1?
[This depends very much on what amp and guitar/pickups you have. As explained in the article I recommend the RAT and Tube Screamer for smaller amps and lower volume because pedals like Muffs, Tube Drivers etc are designed for powerful tube stacks and they can be hard to dial in on smaller rigs. The RAT and Tueb Screamer are incredibly versatile and there are different models, clones and similar pedals to choose from. Among those you suggest, I think I'd go for a RAT and stick with both the SD-1 and 808... or at least one of them. I'd also considered a BD-2, which is very similar to the transparent Colorsound... although I strongly recommend a modified version for a better tone if you can afford it. - Bjorn]
Thanks – im relatively small potatoes at the minute; i play the epiphone LP special2, ive got a noname 50w amp (the clean sound is alright and if i get another amp [probably a fender FM] id still keep it to get stereo sounds) for me its not a case of sounding the same as gilmour just a little more like him because its really beyond my means.
Now I’ve got a full pedalboard I usually sell to buy but i think maybe you are right that i should see what i still like/dislike until i make that decision. I did think youd say the RAT and i wanted it confirmed, am i right in thinking Jeff Beck use this; hes another fave of mine largely because of Amused To Death.
I will have to take my chances on the regualar BD-2 because i cant really afford the mod. Do you know what the best settings for these ODs are especially Tone?
[The LP has humbucker pickups and as you know, they do sound a lot different than single coils. It's easier to make the leads work in terms of David's sound but I think you'll have a hard time nailing the cleans and milder overdrives. Depends on how close you want your tone. Difficult to suggest settings as I don't know your guitar and amp but normally you need to keep the tone control on Boss pedals quite low to take off some of the bright overtones. I usually keep it aouround 9:00. - Bjorn]
OK its fine because its generally the leads in terms of sounding like guilour; the fat ditorted ones as well. I’m not as worried about the rhythms as much because thats where i like to mix it up between trying to sound like Johnny Marr, Pete Townshend, The Edge, Neil Young or whoever.
So, thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the reply.
I play a reverse headstock Strat ( mex ) with vintage pickups.
The amp is 75W with all types of Amp and cab Models.
Maybee it is too complex I am not sure.I have now managed a realy good clean ( Gilmour Tone ) which I am very happy with .Maybee I will try a Rat or Overdrive in front of this clean tone.
I read your article about the Boss GT and wondered if that may be a good idea,any thoughts ?
Once again thanks and good luck with the new CD.
Regards
Steve B
[As I said, I'm not familiar with the amp and how the different sims work but I think you should be able to get great tones with the right setup and your guitar. The GT boards are incredibly versatile and in my opinion the best multi boards for live use. It's been awhile since I used one in my rig and I recommend pedals for a more natural tone but again, - if you're considering a multi board I'd go with Boss GT. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
Have you ever tried out the MJM Foxey Fuzz? Although the names says its a fuzz, it actually a vintage 70′s big muff.
If you have, what are your thoughts on it??
Phil
[Never tried it but yes, it's a clone of the early Guild Foxey Lady/ EH Triangle model. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Fantastic site,by the way.
I just wanted to mention Maxon OD9, which has the same circuit as od808, but with a better building quality and true bypass. Just have a look on analog Man site about it!
The settings have to be different (lower distortion and higher tone) compare to OD 808.
Christophe
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Thanks again for all the excellent tips on the effects pedals. I have a question for you regarding the “Keeley Fuzz Head” vs. “Analogman Sunface” vs. “Hartman Germanium”? You have the Analogman Sunface on your board, but have you compared it with the Keeley Fuzz Head by chance? The Keeley has both germanium and silcon switches.
I’m getting ready to order one of the three but wanted your expertise on these first, if possible.
Congrats on the new CD by the way! Best, Dave
[Thanks Dave! The Sunface that I have is the silicon model, which has a different sound compared to the Hartman. Depends on what tone you're after. Unless you want that late 60s/ early 70s tone I'd go for a silicon, which imo is a bit more versatile for most of David's tones. The Sunface BC108 is my favourite by far. The Keeley sounds a bit too modern for my taste. The MJM London Fuzz that I just reviewed can also be used for both germanium and silicon tones as it has a lot more gain than the average germanium fuzz... but still, I'd go for the SunFace BC108. -Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Thanks for all the helpful tips and content on your website keep it up. I have a question for you regarding RAT pedal clones. I am finding it hard to get a RAT 2 where I live. However I was contemplating buying a Mi Audio Crunch Box Distortion pedal, how good of a clone is it in comparence to the RAT and have you tried it? Or should I just wait and get a RAT (maybe ebay or online order perhaps).
Thanks
Alex
[I haven't tried the MI so I really can't tell. Other options would be the Mouse from BYOC or a modded RAT from Keeley. - Bjorn]
Hi, Bjorn,
Very interesting article! I would like to ask you something. My amp is a Fender Deluxe Reverb 65 and I have a TS 808 Keeley modded. I play mostly at home, where I can’t play too loud. I was thinking of getting a BYOC triangle or ram’s head as my main distortion. You don’t recomend them with small solid state amps. What can you tell me about the combination big muff, TS808 and small tube amp? I’d have to play it really loud to get a nice Gilmour tone?
Congratulations on your fantastic site!
Thanks,
Ari
[As mentioned, the Big Muff and older fuzz pedals are designed to be used with loud powerful tube amps. The louder you play, the more you crank those tubes, the smoother the pedal gets. On a small stransistor amp, a Big Muff can sound thin and harsh and have little in common with David's huge tone. However, it depends very much on your amp and how you use the pedal. I'm woriking on an in debth article on the matter but I think that in any case, you should be able to get some really cool sounds with your setup and a Muff. The TS could also be placed after the Muff acting as a "pre-amp" to smooth the tone. - Bjorn]
In my opinion, the RAT II is garbage outta the box. But for its price, and after adding mod switch to eliminate its low end undistinguishable mud, this pedal ROCKS! Anyone who has a virgin RAT II is swimming upstream. Clip that resistance and let this “new” pedal slap the vintage model in the face.
[I wouldn't say that the RAT is garbage but the current models is not as good sounding as the originals with the LM308 chip. I do recommend a modified version though, either you do it your self or get a Keeley or similar. - Bjorn]
Have you checked out the TC Electronic Nova Drive? A 100% analog, digital control, true bypass
Distortion and Overdrive in one pedal, can reverse order and put in parallel.
Currently 249.00 US
[Haven't been able to try it yet but it sounds cool! - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
Great article. I have both of these pedals and they are extremely versitile. I run them both through a peavey classic 30 at home and they are wonderful. The peavey classic series of amps are great too, very underrated. And you can’t beat the price either! If anybody is looking for a vintage rat i see them all the time on ebay…
You do a great job bjorn, i’m thankful i have somewhere to go for gilmour knowledge, can never get enough of it! Nice Work.
[Thanks! Glad you enjoy my site :) I agree regarding the Peavey amps. Great tone and value. Cheers! - Bjorn]
wait,
one more question, what would be a good delay and chorus pedal to merry with the rat and 808, thanks!
[Depends on what tones you want. I recommend that you have two delays on your board. One analog echo (TRex Replica, MXR Carbon Copy, EH Memory Man etc) for the early pre-Animals stuff and a digital delay (Boss DD2 is my favorite but anything would do really) for the more accurate settings. David's been using the deleted Boss CE2 chorus on and off since Wall. Great sounding analog unit and easy to fint on EBay. Alternatively you can check out the AnalogMan Chorus, Ibanez CS9 or the EH Small Stone for a similar tone. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn! I love the site, it is extremely helpful for the gilmour info i am fascinated by!
Anyway i was just asking your opinion on the fulltone overdrives, the OCD and the Fulldrive II. I was wanting to know your thoughts on these two because i am currently looking for an overdrive pedal and i was comparing these two to the od808 and a couple of others.
I am looking to use the pedal as a boost on my clean channel, a boost with my proco rat and as an overdrive sound as well. My guitar is an epiphone firebird but i am thinking on buying a strat and putting in CS69 pickups. I have a peavey classic 30.
So what would you recommend or suggest i try. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
[Glad you like my site Alex :) You can't really go wrong with Fulltone pedals. Great quality and great tone. Which one to chose depends on what tone you want. Both the OCD and the Fulldrive lies somewhere between a Tube Driver or Colorsound Powerboost and the 808/TS9. The OCD sounds very much like a cranked Marshall with little compression and a very transparent scooped mids tone... not unlike the Tube Driver/Colorsound but a bit more tube amp-ish. You can also get it to produce a clean volume boost although I think the Colorsound is much better at this. The Fulldrive has a couple of different tone options ranging from a transparent scooped mids tone like the OCD to a more mid rangy 808 tone. Perhaps a bit more versatile than the OCD in terms of Gilmour's tones. I think the Fulldrive would better suit a Peavey Classic. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I have a question reguarding your opinion on my board only as far as overdrives and distortions go. I have a boss bd-2, ibanez Ts-9, AAA green russian, and a RAT2. I play through CS69′s and a fender hotrod deville. If this were YOUR set up, seeing as how i dont have enough room on my board for both, would you keep the RAT2 on the board as the main distortion or the AAA green russian?
Thanks for your help!
[I guess that depends entirely on what you think really. In any case, the a Muff would be more authentic for replicating David's sounds because that's the pedal he's been using since 1977. But, on some setups it can be a bit tricky to dial in the desired tone. That's the purpose of this article - to give you some alternatives. The RAT is an extremely versatile pedal that works nicely on any setup and it will cover most of David's lead tones quite convincingly but it's not a Big Muff. If you feel that your AA gives you the tones you want then stick with it. If it sounds harsh, thin and not quite what you expected then go with the RAT. Keep in mind that the settings I've listed throughout this site should only be used as guidelines. If the suggested Muff (or any other pedal) settings doesn't sound right to you then do your own adjustments. David keeps the tone on the Muff around 11:00 (as do I). On some amps this may produce a harsh, fuzzy tone. Roll off the tone until you get the desired sound. If you end up with settings that are completely different from David's then fine... as long as it sounds good on your amp. If nothing works, then go with the RAT. Hope this helped :) - Bjorn]
Hey, first I must tell you that your website is the best. Also, I just found something on the internet. You said David Gilmour added a Triangle Muff and the T-Rex delay during the 2006 tour but I found another picture where he added also a Ram’s head Muff. Don’t know if you already knew but I just wanted to tell you just in case so you have even more precise information.
[Yeah, it's in the 2006 Tour section :) David is seen trying out a Ram's Head Muff during the rehearsals for the Albert Hall gigs in May 2006 but it was never used on the shows. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Do you have any comments or opinion on the Tim Pedal as a clean boost/overdrive?
Thanks,
Laurent
[I've never tried the pedal so I really can't say... - Bjorn]
-Budget Rat /Rat Substitute-
Bjorn:
The MXR Distortion III or Classic Distortion (Same Circuit – Different Color Boxes) are similar both circuit & tone wise to the Rat.
Hey Bjorn got one for you.Have you had any experiance with the Analogman King of tone V4.Its a dual overdrive pedal.Many goodys in one box.To Quote from the Quicktest from Guitarist issue 312,As delivered one side is set up as a clean boost,while the other is set as an overdrive.Sounds interesting,well to me anywa.Now the thing is,is this sort of pedal specifically for valve amps or would it suit my 5210.Any ideas mate.Cheers
[I've never tried the pedal so I have no clue really. The 5210 seems to get along very well with most pedals although some of the more demanding overdrives can sound a bit harsh on it. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
After stumbing upon your site by accident, I must say that YOU are what makes this site so great. Taking the time to answer each and every question has to take alot of your time but really reflects the class A, generous person that you must be!
My question has to do with overdrive distortion. I am starting from scratch on my pedal board. I have a American standard strat with the Tex Mex pu’s and a fender Hot Rod Deuxe tube amp. If this was your equipment, what (2 or 3) overdrive/distortion pedals would you buy to try and recreate Gilmour’s sound. I’m pretty sold on the Keeley BD2 but what other two would you buy for clean and dirty tones? Thanks again for the wonderful site.
[Glad you enjoy my site Dan! The BD2 is very similar to the old Colorsound Powerboost David used in the 70's for both clean boost and overdrive rhythms like Time, Have a Cigar, Pigs etc. It's transparent tone is ideal for boosting your distortions. It can also produce fairly convincing Tube Driver tones. I strongly recommend the Keeley over the stock Boss. For a versatile tone, I'd go for a Tube Screamer as the second overdrive. My favoruite is the Maxon 808. The MJM Phantom Overdrive is an excellent option. This one has true bypass and a fat switch for more gain and bass. This type of overdrive with a pronounced mid range will get to closer to David's 80's and 90's tones when he used the active EMG pickups' SPC feature to boost the overall mid range for those creamy tones. What kind of distortion you should choose depends on what kind of tone you want. Obviously the Big Muff has been David's main unit since Animals but it can be tricky to dial in on some amps leaving a buzzy harsh tone. My favoruite is the "triangle" 1971 Big Muff for it's pure tone and rich sustain. BYOC offers excellent clones. Don't get tempted by the new reissues from Electro Harmonix or Sovtek. For a more versatile tone that seems to work nicely on any setup I'd go for a RAT. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
How r u friend,
I m trying to just see what should i buy,a skreddy screwdriver or an AA ratzo…..i can’t just set myself on this…….
[Depends on what tone you're after. They're two entirely different beasts. The Screwdriver is somewhere between a Colorsound Powerboost and a Tube Driver. Very bright and transparent transparent overdrive with a typical scopped mids tone (the AA Fits would be its equivalent). The Ratzo is a clone of the RAT distortion. Creamy, warm tone with lots of mid range. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
thanks a lot for your great an inspiring work.
I have spent a lot of time on your brilliant site, but I haven’t found any comments on the Proco Solo yet. It’s supposed to be even more versatile and to have more bottom end than the regular rat – similar to the keeley mod? Is it worth the higher price and can I get gilmourish rat sounds out of it?
And what about the ‘you dirty rat’? (It’s supposed to sound more vintage and compressed).
Do you think the H&K Tube Factor is a good substitute for the tube driver?
What is your opinion about Marshall pedals, say Blues Driver and Regenerator?
Just one more question, what do you think of the Fender Blues Deville 410 amp – can I get Bassman-like and gilmourish sounds out of it?
Thanks and many greetings from Germany
Michael
[A lot of questions here :) I've never tried the Solo so I can't really tell. The You Dirty Rat is OK but I prefer the vintage Rat or the Rat 2 (preferably the Keeley mod). Personally I think the TD is way better than the HK. Not really a fan of Marshall pedals. The old Shredmaster is a classic though... very similar to the RAT. - Bjorn]
Brilliant as always, Bjorn, you’ve always been an inspiration; alas, I’ve taken the long road to Gilmourtown, straight through humkbucker country: I’ve bought an Ibanez AG75 Artcore. Plays like a dream, no doubt about that, and its stock humbuckers sound mellow and sweet, neck one a bit twangy – I dare think it might be Gilmourizable. Would a Regular Rat help them stay nice and transparent like single-coils, or would mostly any fuzz/distortion make them irrevoacbly sound like the buckers they are? And what about a contemporary Marshall Guv’nor on your list? Played one through a Highway One Strat and managed to wrangle out a nice Childood’s End tone.
All the best, you know you rule the roost
[Humbuckers aren't the best option for replicating David's tones. His cleans and most of the overdrives are very much the tone of a Strat with single coils. However, it's easier to get the humbuckers to work with distortions and in my experience at least I've managed to get quite convincing 80s and 90s tones with especially a RAT. David's EMG pickups are almost like a mix between humbuckers and single coils so you kind of have the clean tones from a single coil (or near a P90) and the distortion ones from a humbucker. - Bjorn]
Hey, i have a big doubt here? I’m about to buy a Vintage Rat, but I’ve read that the ones with the VT- serial number are considered to have a poor sound… Do you guys know anything about it?Sshould I look for another one?
Thanks a lot
Micke
[Never heard about that but make sure that the pedal feature the LM308N chip for the best tone. - Bjorn]
Danelectro Daddy-O od pedal. $59 new. Best od I’ve ever heard.
Hey Bjorn hows things.Just listened to the Young Lust clip on this thread,yet again.Its a realy fantastic tone mate.Im using a dynacomp but apart from that we are the same set up.Would you say that the cs2 is better suited than the Dynacomp for use with the rat as im starting to think that my noise problems with my Rat 2 ( I hope you dont remember my whinging about it period to much) could have been made worse by the Dynacomp.Anyway after listening to the clip ive got to get back to the Rat.This solo sure would make a good you tube vid ;)Take care mate .
[I prefer the Dynacomp over the CS2 in any case but that's just my taste. The Dyna can be a bit noisy though and the RAT, with the boosted mid range, is quite noisy in it self, so you might want to back down the compression a bit. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn. I’ve emailed you about this before, and I just had another question to ask you :)
So, before, I asked you if I should keep my big muff and also get a rat or not, and you told me if I only needed one, to get the rat. Well, now I’m at the point where my big muff sounds great, but not without melting people’s brains. Soo, I caved in and ordered a rat. I’ve had it sent to a buddy who’s gonna mod it for me. It’s a USA vintage reissue rat that I managed to catch for $60. Do these already have the LM308 chip in it? And do you know how big of a difference, if any, the normal chip LM308 sounds for the tin pot version? Anddd just a last question, do you power your gain pedals by battery or PSU? Because I’ve heard that some fuzz pedals like the “mushyness” of a dying battery, and the consistant flow of power, while other pedals like having that odd flowing current going into it, etc, etc.
:)
[The Vintage RAT has the LM308 chip. As a rule I'd use carbon non-alkaline batteries on fuzz and old boosters (like Colorsound Powerboost) and power adaptors on anything else (incl Muffs and RATs). - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn and Gilmourish mates ^^
Great sound clips, as always. Love the pinch harmo at the beginning of the demo of the RAT ! I got my RAT2 last week and it sounds really good, thanks for your advices and help.
About the OD, do you (or anyone else) know about the Belcat OVD-302 or newer OVD-502 pedals ? They seem to be a really good budget choice, including the same famous JRC-4558 op-amp chip as the 808′s ?
Thanks a lot, Gilmourishdotcom is the best website ever !
Sly
[Thanks for your kind words Sly! Glad you enjoy my site :) I've never tried the Belcat pedals so I really can't tell. Perhaps someone else here can assist? - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn! Love the site. I have my mini-Gilmour rig thanks to your knowledge and advice. CS3, Rat 2, BD-2, Phase 90, and Carbon Copy.
But now im looking into getting a new Strat. I was looking at the American Vintage ’57 Reissue series. I saw in your guitar article that other than the pickups, its a pretty good guitar. But i am a little confused about the neck. It comes with a V-neck. But Gilmour’s Black Strat has a neck from a ’57 reissue that is a C-neck. Im sure it is a dumb question, but could you shed some light on this. I ask because i’ve always played a C-neck, and feel a little awkward playing a V. Any advice is much appreciated.
Much Thanks!
[David's 57 neck comes from one of the cream/blonde Strats he bought in the early 1980's. Fender made these reissues with a couple of modifications including using a C neck instead of the classic V neck that the 57s were known for. Some find the V a bit too fat while others - me included - likes them very much. It's all taste and preference. - Bjorn]
HI,
Have you ever tried a Ibanez/Maxon Sonic Distortion SD9? If you have, what’s your opinion on it?
Also, if you have had the chance to try one of Lovepedal ‘s Eternity, I would love to hear your opinion on those too… Thanks!!!
[The SD9 is very similar to the classic distortion pedals like the RAT, Marshall Shredmaster and the MXR Distortion +. Very vintage Marshall 800 sound. It has a bit more gain and output perhaps compared to the others. Never tried the but I understand it can produce tones covering a range of pedals like the Tube Screamer, RAT and Cornish SS. It has a warm overdrive/distortion with rich compression and lots of sustain. - Bjorn]
litlle off topic i know, but what settings are you useing on your Boss CS-2 for young lust? i just got mine today and im stille trying to figure the attack knob and what not haha
[Depends entirely on your rig - guitar/pickups, amp and the other pedals. I usually set mine with the level at 2:00, attack, 12:00 and sustain 11:00 but when I play at home at low volume where I need to squeeze the tones for more sustain I roll the sustain up to 12:00 and sometimes 1:00 (o'clock). - Bjorn]
Hi there, great article, love the website. Would just like to offer a word of warning: The Rat 2 is no longer made in America. Since May 2003 they started being manufactured in China, so all Rat 2 units with a serial no. above 300,000 are Chinese and use a different chip (NOT the classic LM308 chip.) These units sound NO WHERE NEAR as good as the classics from the 80s. I bought my Rat 2 new last year and have been extremely disappointed with it. Robert Keeley, however, does Rat Mods and will install the old chip.
On another note, the Danelectro Cool Cat CT-2 is a wonderful transparent overdrive unit for little money. It has a treble and bass boost so is very versatile for boosting a distortion unit, and sounds great on its on for crisp, early Gilmour overdrive sounds. In my humble opintion, anyway.
[Thanks for the tips. The RAT has lost some of it mojo with the shift of production to China and the exclusion of the LM 308 chip. As you say, the Keeley is a great alternative and I also recommend the Might Mouse from BYOC. ProCo has just released a reissue of the old '85 RAT though with the LM308 chip intact. It's also worth checking out the Boss DS-1 AnalogMan version for a similar tone. - Bjorn]
So are you driving the rat and the Tube Screamer at the same time and if so where do they fit in the order of the rig.
[You can use the TS to boost the RAT but in most cases on a smaller amp, you'd get a better tone with just one of them and not a combo. Check out this article for pedal setups etc. - Bjorn]
I would like to spend a few good words for the infamous RAT2. I don’t mean to dispute if the reissue or the vintage RAT is better (I trust the old RATs are better), but in my opinion, even the China made RATs are still a great pedal to have. There’s a lot of hype about the RAT White Face ’85 reissue and as a result, last week I was able to get a new RAT2 for only 55 US bucks on ebay. For that price you barely get a Behringer clone of a clone. Now, that’s what I call a bargain!
The RAT2 does wonders to my little 15w Highwatt and delivers even with just my Zoom G2 digital sims and headphones. Now I can get pretty convincing overdrive, muff, fuzz & even metal tones. Not quite ‘THE’ muff or fuzz face tone, but without a good tube amp I can’t go very far anyway.
I must admit the RAT2 can sound a bit harsh sometimes, but when I boost it with a TS clone (a behringer), things sound a lot smoother and nicer.
Now I wonder if the White Face reissue is four times better than the RAT2? And in any case. I am not sure how much difference would I would be able to appreciate on my small rig.
Finally, I am considering to add the Blues Driver to my collection of pedals, do you think RAT2 & BD2 are a nice pair to build a gilmour tone?
Is the BD2 Keeley mod a must for small rigs? Is it really worth it?
Cheers
[I agree Giorgio. The RAT in general is a great pedal and, as you point out, you can do some really good bargains. There is a difference with the LM308 though. The tone is noticeably warmer and smoother. Still, I'd get a new RAT over a Boss DS1 or a MXR Distortion + (reissue). Not sure if you'd notice the difference on a smaller rig though. Haven't compared that my self. The BD2 is a great versatile pedal ideal for replicating David's Colorsound Powerboost and Tube Driver tones with it's transparent, classic scooped mids sound. The Keeley and other mods has a more balanced lower end and a much smoother break up. Highly recommended although the stock Boss is a great budget option. The BD2 also works much better as a booster for a distortion than the TS, since this one can oversaturate with the boosted mid range. - Bjorn]
Hey bjorn,
I’ve been trying to figuer out what kind of mod to get for a BD-2 im getting soon. Ive actually read alot of bum reviews about keeleys mods and ive found that Monte Allum offers better mods for less the price (becuase they’re DIY kits). Im not sure if your famillar with Monte’s mods but he has several mods for the BD-2, some im sure you’ve heard of. What im wondering is wich of two of his mods would be good for Gilmour tone.
one is the BD-2 H20+ mod and the other is his Blues Stack mod. The H20+ is definitely the brighter sounding pedal, and seems to generate more signal distortion when the gain is cranked up past halfway. I would consider it slightly more transparent sounding than the BSP mod, though they are both among the most transparent OD’s I’ve heard. this mod has a much flatter EQ also.
The BSP version is definitely a warmer and bluesier sounding pedal, as the name would indicate it should be. The character of the distortion when the gain is cranked is also smoother–again in keeping with the “blues” theme. At the same tone pot settings, it generates very noticeably less treble end than the H2O+, and this is why I suspect it sounds a wee bit less transparent and open sounding when compared side-by-side with that version. Ive listened to their mp3 samples of both sound good, ive even e-mailed Monte on his opinion on which will give me the btter Gilmour tone and he suggest the Blues Stack Mod (his site recommends this mod for SRV,Hendrix,Zeppelin,ect as well) but ive also read the H20+ works better. Anyways i was wanting your opinion on wich of these sound best. ( im useing a MIM strat with CS69′s and SSL-5) Heres their site link if your wanting more info
or anyone els reading: http://www.monteallums.com/pedal_mods.html
[Depends a little on your amp. In either case I'd go for the BSP. It's much closer to the Tube Driver that David's using. The H20+ can be a bit bright and aggressive, especially on high gain settings. If you have a Fender amp or similar this can be quite nasty. The BSP is very close to the Keeley and AnalogMan mods (and my Danish C-mod). - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Reading your article, a great one by the way, i’m convinced to buying the RAT and Maxon as my overdrive and distortion pedals. I just have one question, you said that the RAT is best when backed by a boost or EQ pedal, I’m not sure what these are, so do you have any suggestions.
[The RAT is a bit thin in the lower frequiencies so you might want to add an overdrive or EQ unit after it boosting the bass. You could use the Tube Screamer but this is not ideal since both pedals has a lot of mid range. You'll end up with a muddy, over saturated tone. I recommend a transparant overdrive like the Boss BD2. This has a fat lower end and a great clean tone for boosting distortions. It's also a great overdrive for those 70's tones. The Tube Screamer is ideal for the 80 and 90s overdrives (Delicate and PULSE). - Bjorn]
I wanna have some tips to combine my TS9 and my RAT II to play time, confortably numb with my CS2 and DD3 delay. I have a boutic amp with black strat with SSL5 and CS69 pickups.
Thx
Alex from france
[CS2 > RAT > TS9 > DD3. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Ive been searching on e-bay and I came across some vintage RAT pedals, (they all look the same as the one in the picture at the beginning of the article),however, some say 89 proco rat, some say 90s proco rat, but they all look the same. Is there a difference?
[As far as I know the vintage RAT or Big Box RAT wasn't produced in 89. The first and original line was between 79-81 and it was released between 91-05. I think all of these has the LM308 chip... also the newer ones. The chip has much warmer tone than the new versions. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Do you know of any budget solid states ($200) that are good for gilmour tones? I’m working on an ultra-low budget.
Thanks
[I'd go for something used, like a Peavey Classic 30 or a Marshall 5210. Check out the Fender Champoin as well. It's small but loud with a great tube tone. - Bjorn]
Hi
Just discovered your amazing website, and was hoping you could give me some advice on a boost pedal. I’m looking for a clean-boost pedal to leave on all the time, to brighten up my dark-sounding Metro JTM45. Amp is set fairly clean, volume around 5, and I’m about to change the rectifier for a ss plug-in for more punch and clearity. I’m currently using a BSM treblebooster for the purpose, and I’m getting a really good, cutting, sparkly clean rythm sound when I roll off the volume on my strat to around 7-8. It also does an amazing job in front of my Vox big ben OD. However, on it’s own, the BSM get harsh and brittle with guitar volume on 10. I’ve also got an analogmodded maxon OD808 for lead boost and a sunface NKT , but the bsm doesn`t work that well together with the 808 and the fuzz. I’m looking for a pedal with the same sparkling cleans for Gilmore and Knopfler rythms (I find most OD pedals gets to dark and muddy when lowering guitar volume), but a little more versatile on it’s own and with my other pedals. I understand that the colorsound PB can be used much in the same way, but is it worth the price? Also concidering the Colordrive, Keeley Boss BD-2 and Xotic RC. What are your opinion on theese pedals for my set-up?
[A treble boost is not the same as a traditional scooped mids type of overdrive like the Colorsound Pwerboost and Tube Driver. A treble boost is essentially an EQ boosting the treble frequencies and this will make your amp sound brighter and make the tubes distort. I guess what you're looking for, is an overdrive that can produce some of David's rhythm and warmer lead tones. The Colorsound Powerboost is an excellent booster and overdrive with a bright, transparent tone capable of producing punchy cleans and near fuzz. The Colourdrive is based on the Powerboost but it's voiced for a much cleaner tone, so this might be a better choice if you only want to brighten up your amp and still maintain it's tone. The Tube Driver is very similar to the Powerboost with a bit more bit and a slightly warmer tone. I also recommend the Boss BD2 as a great budget model, although it's worth checking out the Keeley or Analogman modified versions. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Got to admit, that I’m a little bit confused (Dogs LOL). I have a few questions. If I use RAT as my main distortion pedal what should I place behind it for a bit more aggression, Maxon OD808 or Keeley BD-2? Since I’m starting from scratch what do you think I should buy first BD-2 or OD 808, and is there a need for both of them?
I’m planning on getting Boss CS-2 as a compressor, Rat as a distortion, BD-2/OD808 (or both of them) for overdrive, MXR Phase 90, and MXR Carbon Copy for start. Since I’m home player I would listen to your advice and get Peavey Classic 30 for my amp. Again if I buy both OD808 and BD-2 what should I use them for and is there a need for both of them in this effects chain above?
Thanks,
Jova.
[I think the BD2 is better for boosting the RAT with its bright, transparent tone. Both the RAT and TS9/OD808 has a lot of mid range and if you combine these the tone tends to get oversaturated and muddy. I'd get the RAT for distortions, the BD2 for boosting both your clean tones and the RAT and a TS9/OD808 for warmer overdrives. That should be a very versatile setup covering most tones. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
Ugh, I’m awful at this tone thing, (Ive gotten better though, a million times thanks to you!!!!) This is actually for the designing the rig article, but whats a compressor? I thought I had all this stuff down until I read about it (I know it helps the distortion and stuff, I just need a little more info.)
P.S. Sorry for all these stupid questions, Im just trying to achieve the 70`s Gimour tone, Ill get better at this someday :)
[No worries Michael! No stupid questions :) Check out this article for some tips. Let me know if you're still not sure. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, greetings from Italy! :-)
My compliments for your website, that I recently found, and my thanks for the time you spend to keep it great.
I recently started playing in a pink floyd tribute band and since then I’m living in a costant desire to improve my tone and make it as close as possible to the pulse tone that I prefer over all (but I have to admit that the ’70 sound is great too).
Over the years – I’m a vintage guy :-) – I collected different pedals and guitars and amps.
My rig today is:
Fender USA ‘89 strat with fat ’50 pups and jacaranda (italian luthier) strat with duncan antiquity pups
Crybaby wha/ scarlata buffer / planet waves tuner / mxr dynacomp / vintage RAT / BYOC big muff (thanks to your advice, great pedal) / Boss OD3 / Boss SD1 jap/ Danelectro vibe / Ehx small stone / Ibanez CS9 / Tc- Electronic nova delay / Ehx holy grail reverb.
Fender hotrod deluxe or a Laney VC 30.
Other pedals that I have: BOSS DD3 jap / DD3 / CS3
Ehx electric mistress deluxe – broken :-(
Ibanez TS5 Mod / TS 7 / TS808
Keeley javaboost – lot of noise, want to sell it!
Pro Co RAT II
Zendrive clone
Starting from your experience, can you suggest some changes in my rig? Too much pedals? I’m planning to place the TS808 instead of the OD3 but I’m afraid to get a muddier tone (OD3 is brighter ) and maybe add the boss DD3 jap. And, of course, repair or buy the Electric Mistress.
Sorry for the long post and thank again for your time.
Cheers!
Rudy
[Since you ask, I think I'd replace the OD3 with either a Tube Screamer or a Tube Driver. Both are, in my opinion, much better sounding pedals... at least in terms of Gilmour's tone. I'd also ditch the SD1. Don't think you'll need it. I'm also not a big fan of adding reverb in the chain. Check out this article for some tips. A good pedal board is often a collection of just the most basic stuff. Try to keep things simple and choose pedals that not only sound good on their own, but also suits your guitar and amp. Cheers! - Bjorn]
i only want to bring to your attention a new excellent ovedrive .. made by brown electronics , hoochee mama
Hi Bjorn,
I just want to say that this is perhaps the most comprehensive and helpful of all the Gilmour websites that I’ve come across. Not only are you patient and thorough with helping others, but you have insane guitar skills to top it off. Thank you for maintaining such a valuable resource for Gilmour lovers!
For a bedroom guitar player like me, chasing the Gilmour tone is extremely difficult. I can never crank my Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue past volume 3, so I can only strive to get as close to the Gilmour tone as possible. So far, my signal chain consists of a Fender Strat with Duncan antiquities Texas Hot (neck, mid) and Duncan SSL-5 (bridge) into a Barber Tone Press, HBE Power Screamer (Tube Screamer clone), BYOC Large Beaver (Triangle), BK Butler Tube Driver (on loan from a friend), DLS Chorus~Vib, MXR Carbon Copy, finally into the Fender Deluxe Reverb.
With my setup I can confirm that the Tube Driver, although being everyone’s “dream” pedal, does not work well at low volume. Neither does the BYOC Larve Beaver. It sounds too harsh. For this very reason, I’ve ordered a Barber LTD SR which is a transparent overdrive with a flat EQ response similar to the BOSS BD-2. I hope that it will make my amp come alive at bedroom volumes, and also smooth out the BYOC Large Beaver.
So Bjorn, do you have any experience with the Fender DRRI amp? I’m having trouble dialing a very basic clean tone at such low volumes. The amp does not have a “mid” knob, only treble and bass. To my ears, the amp is slightly muddy with my Celestion Vintage 30 cabinet. Any possible suggestions to get rid of the muddiness?
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) Playing at home at low levels is a challenge. Some amps works better than others but it will have to be a compromise in most cases. I don't have that much experience with your amp but you should be able to dial in som decent tones. Since the amp doesn't have a mid range control it can be useful to add an equalizer like the Boss GE7 to boost the mids. That'll smooth out some of the harsh overtones. You might also need to roll off the treble a bit more than normal and set the channel quite high and lower the master. I usually recommend pedals that are a bit more versatile than a Muff and Tube Driver for playing at home - someone with a bit more mid range for a warmer and smoother tone like the RAT and Tube Screamer. - Bjorn]
Hi, congratulations! Your website is awesome!
I’ve read your entire site and I’m having doubts about the boost / overdrive. This guide helped me choose the RAT for distortion.
I have a Squier Stratocaster with Fender Custom ’69 pickups and a big handmaked transistor amp (140w). I’ve fixed the following pedals to buy (100% real clones):
1. Compressor: MXR Dynacomp (Clone).
2. Distortion: ProCo RAT (Clone with LM308).
3. Booster / Overdrive: ?
4. Uni-Vibe: Dunlop Univibe (Clone).
5. Delay: A simple analog delay. Sounds similar to MXR Carbon Copy.
Well, there are some booster / overdrive options that I could choose for similar prices, here they are:
1. Ibanez Tube Screamer TS808 (Clone).
2. Fulltone OCD (Clone).
3. Xotic BB Preamp (Clone).
4. Klon Centaur (Clone).
5. Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive (Clone).
Which of these would be the best choice for my guitar and my transistor amp?
Greetings from Brazil!
[Based on your setup I'd go for something versatile like the RAT. The Sparkle Drive is flat and dull in my oppinion. The OCD sounds better on tube amps. Never tried the Xotic so I can't tell. The Klon is probably the best booster pedal on the market. Warm clean boost with lots of character and capable of producing some really creamy overdrive tones. The 808 is a classic and you can't really go wrong. It might lack some gain though so I recommend the MJM Phantom Overdrive which is a clone with a fat switch. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
Im still new on useing Distortions and OD together.
Right now im just useing the basic solid state at home setup,
with a ProCO Rat II and TS9 and my new BD-2 (and a CS-2 and line 6 podxt but tehyre not part of my queestion). Any ways I\’ve found some good settings for diffrent songs and eara.
But i was wanting your opinion and reccomendation on what settings i should be useing or rule of thumb. I set my Rat to Dist.2 o’clock,flitrer. 2-3 o’clock and the level 12-3. for my Muff tones and just set the Dist/filter to 12-1 for fuzz tone. then i combine the Rat with eatiher the BD-2 or Ts9, When i’m useing the Ts9 i’m usually useing (combined with Rat) 11:00-11:30 tone, drive 1-2 o’clock and level 2-3 (for my 80s-present tone). I just got my BD-2 and been playing around with it, so far ive found with (by the way on the BD-2 dose the level effect he volume of the pedal and gain the “drive”?) Level at 12ish,Tone im not sure yet, suggestions?, and Gain at 7-8 o’clock, combined after the RAT in muff status I get a real nice tone that sounds a little like OAI and a little pit pulseish , cant quite determine yet. anyways i’m also trying to learn aboout findeing the “sweet” spot and useing an OD as a clean boost.
So any setting suggestions for diffrent eras would be nice as well as any helpful tips would be appreciated for this Effects Noob.
Thank You!
[It's always hard to suggest settings because just a hair on the knob might have completely different results on two different rigs. A pedal will always interact with your amp, guitar/pickups, cables, other pedals, technique etc so what works for me might be way off for you. I like to keep the BD2 fairly clean as a booster for my cleans, overdrives and distortions. Normally i set the volume slightly above unity gain, tone 10:00 and gain 9:00 right before it breaks (mine is modified and has a wider clean range than the stock model). The volume has an effect on the gain. The higher the volume on the pedal the bighter and more punchy the gain stage gets. A lot of people tend to forget that volume is a vital part of the tone. Hope this helped. Cheers! - Bjorn]
So would is be possible or recommended to have a OD acting as a clean boost and another OD for overdrive being used for boosting/driveing distortion all at the same time?
For instance a Rat (dist.) going into a BD-2 (clean boost) then into a TS9 for overdriv with all pedals used at once.
[I wouldn't recommend it. Even though the BD-2 is set for a clean boost it's still a gain pedal and it will colour your tone. I also would be careful using the RAT and TS9 together since they both have a lot of mid range which often results in a muddy, oversaturated tone. My advice is to always keep things a basic as possible. Use the BD2 as a clean boost with just a hint of crunch as a basis for either the RAT on distortions or the TS9 for overdrives. As always though - try different combos, settings and arrangements and trust your ears. If it works for your then go for it! - Bjorn]
so would you suggest Guitar>RAT>TS9(OD)>BD-2(cleanboost) to make best use out the three? I’m just trying to get the right idea of how i should set my pedals up, when it comes to the tS9 andBD-2 ive been useing you Pulse Shine On Video as reference because i’m beliveing your have the BD-2 going into the TS9. lol when it comes to ODs im still learning exactly how to use them.
[I always keep the booster last. My suggestion was RAT+BD2 for distortions and TS9+BD2 for overdrives. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, thanks for the tips!!
I’m experimenting: at this moment I removed Holy Grail, SD-1and OD-3 for the TS 808(OD) and zendrive clone (boost). It seems to work well with both HDR deluxe and VC 30. I think I will also try the java boost before the RAT. Some problems with the Beaver, the RAT seems to sound better to my ear.
I had the time to check deeply your site: GREAT! lots of useful informations. Thanks to your advices I amazed my band with the – I admit, not yet perfect :-) – waving part of CN. Thank you|
[Cheers Rudy! Glad I can help :) - Bjorn]
Really ,really awesome .. THE ICECREAMER, WICH IS A BROWN ELECTRONICS HOCHEE MAMA CLONE WITH new 220NF INPUT AND OUTPUT CAPACITORS .THE ORIGINAL S WERE 100NF. ALSO BETTER THAN ZENDRIVE IS ZENKUDO.I’M A BIG FAN OF AMERICAN STOMPBOXES BUT THIS IMPROVEMENTS DONE BY THE JAPS MADE THEEM MUCH MORE USEFUL. ALSO , SAY HELLO TO VALVETTE OVERDRIVE BUILT BY A YOUNG GIFTED MAN FROM UK.THERE ARE ALSO SOME AMERICANS LIKE CLAY JONES , WHO MADE WONDERFUL TS -808 CLONES. I LOVE THIS YOUNG BRAVE HEROES.PLEASE CONTACTME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.. DON’T FORGET BILL FINNEGAN .. KLON CENTAUR IS THE BEST CLEAN BOOSTER EVER MADE ON THIS PLANET.
[Thanks for the tips! - Bjorn]
First of all, I LOVE your website. Im a huge Pink Floyd fan and specially of David’s tone and playing
Have you tried Danelectro’s Transparent Overdrive? Few people try it because Danelectro is knwon for cheap pedals biult very poorly and with not very good sound, but this pedal comes in a metal enclosure, its true bypass and it’s built very strong
The tone is amazing, it is a mild overdrive and is a great clean booster that doesnt color your sound, unlike a tube screamer that adds a lot of mids
I think this would be a great budget alternative for a TS 808
Best regards from Mexico!
[Thanks for your kind words and the tip! I haven't tried the pedal my self but I will! Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi…Been lurking and reading on your site…I am building a black strat(all black….except for the neck, based on a 2010 American Std Strat, and a pre loaded pickguard from a custom outfit in the US…)
I have a Fender Twin Reverb 65 Reissue (2 yr old) and want to know what the best two pedals would be as a start for a Gilmour Tone…I love all the albums but want to play similar to Delicate sounds and earlier albums (dark side, animals, etc…)
What do you recommend…I also have a GDEC 30 as a practice amp which as some cool presets for Floyd type sounds, but I want to transition to the Tube amp…
I was thinking the Maxon OD-808 and the Rat or RatII if I can find them…But what is your thoughts…I do want to be economical but I also want the most bang for the buck…I am confused as to all the above posts as when I thought I knew which route to go, it all changed from reading everyone’s opionions…
Thanks in advance…Awesome site by the way!!
Cheers from Austin Texas!!
[As I've tried to explain in this article the 808 and RAT seems to work with almost anything. You can't go wrong and they do sound great as well. Classic pedals that's been used on countless albums. They shouldn't set you back too much either. Both will easily cover any Gilmour period with some tweaking but keep in mind that these are alternatives to David's more demaning pedals so you need to live with 90% of his tones (baring in mind that your guitar and amp also plays a significant role in shaping the tone). I'd go for these two or something similar like a Fulltone OCD as an alternative to the 808 and an AnalogMan Boss DS-1 for the RAT. - Bjorn]
Thanks for the fast reply, I have been looking for them already on ebay etc..are the TS-808 Reissue’s worth it or should I look for vintage, I also notice the Maxon 0d-808 is a reissue with some factory mods to prevent static/noise…the proco rat 2 is it ok, or again should i look for vintage…I am fine finding the right choices, but I don’t know if those recent versions are worth looking at…I think I am going thru reading overload on here!!
[The Maxon 808 is great and a bit smoother than the current Ibanez version. The new RAT pedals are not as warm and smooth as the older models. Be sure to get one with the LM308 chip. That's about pre-2000. - Bjorn]
Thanks for answering my second question….My Guitar Teacher recommended saving for “Better” Pedals such as FullTone etc…with True bypass…So where would the Full Drive 2 Mosfet and the Pig Mine (skreddy) fit in in the idea of subbing and 808 and Rat for the above two pedals? Wish I could find a Pink Flesh as they seem to be really well regarded…
[The FullDrive 2 is kind of like a mix between a Tube Driver and a 808. Classic overdrive with lots of different tones. I haven't tried the Pig Mine my self but it's based on a Muff... slightly different than a RAT but should go well with most tube amps. - Bjorn]
hello bjor,
i tried sending this earlier but dunno if it sent of my phone. anyways, im doing Monte Allums trigain mod to my RAT 2, and an optional part is to remove a diode and eaither leave it empty for a more compressed gain, or put in montes replacement and get a more smooth less compressed gain. so basicly which do you think be best for my gilmour tone (I use a keeley modded BD-2 as a clean boost for my RAT which i treat as a big muff since im useing a 100w transistor amp.
[I've never done this myself or heard the different options but I'd say as much compression as possible for the best RAT tone. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
What delay unit would you recomend with the rat and the boss bd2 backing it up?
[Anything would do really. My fav delay at the moment is the old Boss DD2. The T-Rex Replica is great and you should check out the TC Electronics Repeater as well. - Bjorn]
here is some info for people ho dont know this. You can get on Ebay and buy Keeley DIY mod kits for the Ts9 and BD-2.Exact same parts and mods, except you do them yourself , for how muh? at least $16!!! I didnt feel like paying $50+ and hassle fo sending keely my pedals so i just found these on ebay and did them myself, Did a A/B test with store bought keeley pedals and they are EXACTLY the same, all you gotta know is how to solder. I figuerd someone out there might ind this useful, hope it helps. Cheers Bjorn!
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi. I really love the 70′s tones of David in Dark side and Wish you…
For me it was an incredible work of experimentation and creativity.
I was a teenager in 1975 and Pink Floyd was my main influence. ( I am a musician and play the guitar for living now. Thanks, David). But each one of us has something different that has to be expressed. I always say to my students: Try to be yourself. Show me your soul…
Well, David Gilmour is a big example of this. He is continually changing his gear and always expressing the same prodigious soul. My advice: Find some decent gear (all the pedals and amps named here are perfect) and seek your own way to express yourself. Your tone will improve tones as you grow as musician and human being.
Meet me here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwNyT8VE4_A
[Totally agree Milo. It's all about finding your own style and soul. As you say, David is a master at this... perhaps more so than most guitarists and IMO at great inspiration and a study to learn how to develop a unique style. I always urge people to not getting caught in trying to copy too much but rather learn from others to develop your own tone. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
this site is amazing, you do always great articles!
I’d like to ask you if you know the difference between RAT II and Turbo RAT and if the last one fits the muffish tones on a solid state amp combined with a BD-2.
Cheers from Italy!!
Luca
[Thanks Luca! The Turbo has a bit more gain and a generally more aggressive tone. IMO the RAT II is better for David's tones. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
Thank you for advices, it realy helps!!!
Best wishes from Ukraine! Hope to see Air Bag concert here!!!
[Cheers Semyon! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Hope Gilmouring is going well at your end! I am from Bangladesh and don’t have the luxury of going to nice guitar shops to try out different pedals. Your site has been an immense resource for me. I have a Boss DS1, Fulltone FullDrive2, Boss BD-2 in the front. Using a Fender Deville and a 65 Deluxe Reverb amp. Do you think it will be possible to get a decent time/comf numb/ echoes from remember the night kind of tone tone from these pedals? My tone is becoming too thin when I am using the DS1 in front of the fulldrive to get dynamics/harmonic content.
I am using a diamond compressor for shine on, which works really well and lot less noisy than the dynacomp. We will be doing a big Pink Floyd Tribute concert in Jan. You are most welcome to join me on stage!!
Thanks,
Fahim
Thanks Fahim! Glad you enjoy my site :) You should be able to get a nice tone with these pedals although a RAT or Muff would perhaps get you even closer. Keep in mind that the secret to David’s smooth punchy tones is his volume. You really need to play loud and push that clean tube amp to get those tones. Most importantly you should set your amp up for a warm punchy clean tone just on the edge of break up. Try these settings (use the normal clean channel): bass 50%, treble 50-60%, mid 40%, presence 50% and set the master volume at about 1/3 of the channel volume. I guess the Fulltone alone would give you a nice distortion tone with the boost engaged. The Boss DS1 needs to have the tone control all the way down when you crank the volume. I usually set the tone “off, the volume at around 60% and the distortion at about 75%. Place the BD2 behind it set up for a clean volume boost (try: gain 9:00, tone 10:00, volume 1:00 o’clock). This should do for the main distortion set up and use the Fulltone for overdrives… or replace the DS1 with it. I wouldn’t use the Fulltone as a booster because its pronounced mid range will make the DS muddy. I’d also get a delay. Hope this helped. Good luck with the show! – Bjorn]
Just to add to my comments above, I have just tried using the FullDrive2 followed by the BD2 and a T-Rex Replica delay. This is sounding very nice!! Dynacomp in the front making things even more interesting! I got the idea of this combination and settings by reading various articles on this site. What a site you have turned this into Bjorn. God bless you..
[Great! That's pretty much what I wrote in the previous comment. I think this should give you a better basis :) - Bjorn]
For all those who would like to have a Colorsound OD – and who may consider building it on their own: guitarpcb.com has a wonderful pcb for this one. It’s basically a very simple built and thus suitable for beginners. Moreover, the ones looking for “vintage” pedals should consider start building their own because most “vintage” pedals are simply much too expensive and building them DIY is much more fun and you can save a whole lot of money! Greetings from Germany – Outstanding site here! Keep it up!
[Thanks for sharing the tip :) - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
I don’t know if you have ever tried the Jam RattleR or Jam RattleR+ but I own the last one and it sounds to me as a great replica of the original ProcoRat. There’s also a Jam Big Muck based on the Russian Sovtek Muff that I’ll check as soon as possible. Keep up the good work !
- wan -
[Never tried the Rattle. I'll have a review up on the Big Muck soon. - Bjorn]
“Chic !”, another great article to read soon ! Anyway, if you don’t mind I have a question for you that should match the subject of your article. I never had the opportunity to check a VintageFX Colordrive plugged into my Classic 30 tube amp, I was wondering if this could work despite its low power ? My main guitar is a Fender Strat Highway 1 with CS69 pickups and I plan to buy a silicon fuzz too. When playing in concert or rehearsal, I set the “normal” gain of clean channel between 3 and 4, as I already have a BD-2, could the colordrive bring any improvement ?
Kind regards,
– wan -
[I don't think the Colordrive would do much difference if you have the BD-2. They're very similar. I'd rather go for a slightly different overdrive like the TS9 for a bit more mid range and warmth. Great companion for the BD-2. - Bjorn]
Many thanks for your replies, Bjorn. My pedalboard is currently being rebuilt mainly because of new songs we’ve been writing and working on for a few months. I try to find the best combination of sounds to avoid the “tap dancing” between sections of songs and it’s not always easy ! I won’t bother everybody with all the details as we all know what it’s all about.
I already own an OCD and it seemed to me – I mean “according to what I read” and A/B testing I made with my BD-2 – that it was pretty close to the TS-9. I must admit I don’t know the TS (never tried, heard on records but never heard on a real amp) but according to Analogman the Ibanez TS808 reissue would be the only one to have “the correct JRC4558D op amp and output resistors”. Lack of time and money push me to ask you one last question : as above for the Colorsound and the BD-2, will it bring new colors to add a TS in the OD section of my “Rolling Thunder” (*) pedalboard ? Is the Ibanez TS-808 reissue a better choice than all the other TS around ?
Again thank you for all your patience and kindness…
- wan -
(*) The “Rolling Thunder” pedalboard is my homemade pedalboard that makes laugh and asks everybody, so I think I’ll soon write a pictured article about it !
[I see that I had a typo in my previous answer (edited it now). What I meant to say was that the BD2 and Colordrive was very similar. Not different :) The OCD is kind of a hot rodded TS9/808. It has much of the same warm saturated mid rangy character but a bit more gain and lower end. The extra switch also allows more tonal variety making it much more versatile than a TS9/808 IMO. I'd stick to the BD2 and OCD and rather concentrate on a new distortion, fuzz or modulation... if you need that sort of thing :) - Bjorn]
Since you have a Laney cub and so do many of us, what combination would you of Dist/overdrive to you use on it?
[I mainly use the two practice setups but I also love using just a very basic setup with a RAT (distortion), Maxon OD808 (Tube Screamer overdrive) and a Boss DD2. - Bjorn]
No problem with your previous answer, it made no doubt to me, everything is clear about the BD-2/Colordrive and the OCD/TS9 now ! Thanks to you.
It’s so strange because sometimes I feel that my live sound is bad and the recordings are fine and a few days later it’s quite the opposite…
I finally order a BYOC Large Beaver though I already have a RattleR, a DS-1 and a Pig Mine. The Boss is the one I know best because I’ve had it for a long time and it works fine with the BD-2. The Pig Mine sounds really great but it’s not easy to combine it with a booster/overdrive : I prefer to use it for recording sessions where it does a really good job all alone (same for Lunar Module, of course both plugged either in a transistor or tube amp !).
It seems the quest for ultimate sound will never end, as long as I won’t have check all combinations ! Fortunately, your strong advice is really helpful to make things clearer. Best regards, – wan -
[Well, I can assure you that not even I can end your quest for THE tone. It'll never end :) I've searched for years... LOL! But that's part of the fun isn't it? In regards to your comment about live tone VS recordings. It's perfectly normal to experience this. Sometimes your rig sounds great and sometimes you just want to throw it out of the window. There's a number of reasons for this like the venue or place that you play may have totally different acoustics compared to the next place. The electric current may be slightly off. There might be a higher humidity. Perhaps your ears are more tired than yesterday... the list is too long but it's just the nature of playing an instrument. Thank God we're not playing an expensive piano that's shifts character from night to night :) - Bjorn]
Mmmm… I don’t know really… maybe we should buy and tour with a brand new 90 000 euros Yamaha piano to check it out, ah ah ! Have a nice day… – wan -
Hey, i’m considering buying a rat but i dont know if i should get a clone (true bypass) or a rat 2. Any thoughts on that?
And congratulations on the website, it’s really useful man! I went to Roger Waters’ “the wall” show 2 days ago and his guitar players were using teles and fender 4×10 amps…I found it weird but they got a nice tone.
Thanks
[The RAT has hardwire bypass like the MXR pedals. That's similar to true bypass only that the signal travel through the cirquit. This might result in a slightly darker tone when bypassed but I've never had any problems with my RATs. What's important though is that you get a model with the LM308 chip. This produce a much smoother and warmer tone than the new models. Check out the excellent Distortion from Retro-Sonic. A RAT clone with additional features. - Bjorn]
So I want my clone to have the LM308 chip, right? I haven’t decided yet if i’m buying a rat or a big muff but if i buy a big muff which one should i get? The guy that makes tha rat clones makes 3 different types of a muffs (triangles, russians and nyc ones). Would i be better off with one of these or with an EHX? If so, which one (NYC, little big muff, russian or tone wicker big muff)?
Thanks a lot for the help man
[The RAT is a much more versatile pedal than the Muff. So if you're not sure what to get I'd go for the RAT. And yes, it should have the LM308 chip. Of the Muffs I'd definitely go for a clone. The EHX models are bleak compared to the 70s models and the new clones.. apart from perhaps the Little Big Muff. Personally I'm very fond of the triangle but the ram's head or russian are perhaps a bit more Gilmourish and versatile. I haven't managed to find any russian clones that fully replicates the tone of an early 90s Sovtek but the Stomp Under Foot civil war model is very good. - Bjorn]
I think I’m really going for a Rat after I get my dd-20 and a comp, and maybe later i’ll check the muffs. I’ve using multieffects over the years but got tired of the tweaking, so what comp would you recommend? I’ve been doing some research and read that the dynacomp (block) and boss cs3 are not very good. So i’m thinking about the mxr custom shop comp (because i wouldn’t want to spend more than 150€), that’s true bypass and all that. I’m really serious about my bypassed signal since I bought a recent cry baby wah that made my rig sound like crap. Although I don’t if I can get a hand-made clone or not.
[Rat, DD20 and comp sounds like a great start. I haven't tried the MXR Custom Comp my self but you can't really go wrong with MXR. It's also worth checking out the Red Compressor from Whirlwind, which is a true bypass clone of the original '76 Dynacomp made by the same guy. - Bjorn]
Yeah! And I already have a boss od which i love and a noise supressor. I’m planning on buying an electric mistress and some kind of tremolo pedal after the others but that’ll take some time lol. Next on the list is an ehx lpb1 booster that I’ll run on my fx loop for solos :D
Thanks for all the info man and keep up the good work
[Cheers! - Bjorn]
Bjorn, thanks for the many tips on your website and for all the research you’ve shared over the years. Thanks to you, and after several experiments, I now get great Gilmour tone with a fairly budget-friendly rig that includes a modified America Strat with Fat ’50s, SSL-1 and SSL-5 pickups. To me, it really starts with the guitar, and the SSL-5, in particular, is essential to capture much of David’s lead tones. I also changed to a Fender Blues Jr., and have the following pedals: Blackout Effectors “Musket,” Blackstar HT Drive and MXR Carbon Copy. The Musket is amazing, even at lower volumes — I like it much better than the RAT. It’s essential, really. And the Blackstar sounds great for both Floyd and many other genres.
[Glad to hear Mike and I can't agree more on that it always starts with the instrument :) - Bjorn]
thanx bjorn for these great tips but i have missed the first half of them are you going to put them back on when you have finished ? as im gutted ive missed them or is there a way i can get them all up from tip 1 to now 11 . great u doin this for us bjorn gotta say youve realy helped us all sort our floyd sound out ,thank you m8
[Please see the blog archives :) - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, I’m just throwing my two cents in here.
If you’re on a budget, like myself, you can really make your pedals work for you with the RAT and Bd-2 combo.
At the Moment I’m running the rat with all the settings at around 2.30 as my main distortion.
I run the Bd-2 after the RAT for a sparkling clean boost with the volume high, the gain around 11.00, and the tone around 10.00.
On it’s own, the bd-2 gets me a lovely soft dynamic-response overdrive.
Currently looking for a new overdrive to pair with the bd-2. I’ve had my eye on the pricier ocd, but also the barber LTD and the visual sound route 808.
Just wondering if you have any experience. with the latter bjorn.
[Of the three I've only tried the OCD. Great pedal with lots of different tones. Highly recommended! - Bjorn]
Hey can the Blackout Effectors Musket pedal create some of the tones from On An Island or some of David’s classic tones from the late 80′s (like tones from Delicate Sound of Thunder, etc.)? Is it more of a Big Muff or more of a fuzz? Thanks for another great tip Bjorn!
[Please see my review of the Musket here. - Bjorn]
Bjorn, I’ve got a Fender Pro Jr and I was wondering what do you think is the best OD/distortion pedal for getting Gilmourish tone?
[I've never tried it but from what I understand it's a one channel 15w amp somewhere between the Champ 600 and Blues Jr. Due its size and limited controls I'd go for a versatile easy to tweak setup with a RAT distortion and a TS overdrive (or similar clones). They'll work nicely on almost anything and you'll have no problems getting convincing Gilmour tones. - Bjorn]
Hello and good day,
I am running a 60w Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4X10 combo. I have tried the pedal setup of Muff first, then OD and then Tube Driver as a boost. The way I have mine set up is, I have an Xotic Effects AC first(clean boost), BK Tube Driver(OD), then my Big Muff(tone/wicker). I use the AC with the Muff and it sounds great, like the Gdansk aggresive sound I love. When I have it the other way it takes all of the snort away from the muff and the low end is horrid. I don’t understand why it sounds so much different the way almost everybody else has it set up. What are your thoughts on this setup ?? Thanks much and have a great day, Matt
[Pedals behaves different on different amps and they'll react to how you set the amp and the other pedals. You should trust your ears though and if a booster+Muff sounds better on your setup than Muff+booster then go for it :) - Bjorn]
Hi, great tips for Gilmour mania beginer.Im going to buy Rat coz i think it is very good drive.
(I was yesterday on Rogers show in Poland, Łódź, it was great :)
to answer the question from a few posts above unless someone els has already done it, yes Jeff Beck did use the Coloursound and the RAT sometime during the 70s (obviously late 70s for the RAT). my question is do you have any suggesions for the RAT to get Gilmours tone from OAI on the song OAI for the solos, i use the typical 2 o’clock settings for muff but it just dosent sound quite like the cornish (im very tone picky) , i however have Monte Allums RAT mod with the 3 way switch (basicly same as keelys) and i use the middle toggle which for more volume and useing the RAT as an overdrive or power boost with the BD-2 (keely moded) behind it with the gain cranked up a little becuase daves cornish to my ears sound like it has a little more treble then the muffs but and the tone i get is close..but still not there, its just a little too sharp and a little too much gain so i guess i need to tweak around a little more but if you have any suggestions that would be awsome.
[What's your amp settings? I usually keep the RAT fairly mild with the gain at 12:00, tone and volume around 2:00 but that also require a typical mids scooped amp and settings at the very edge of break up. - Bjorn]
Dear Bjorn!
Excellent review and advice! Indeed the Rat with a booster works wonders. As a booster, I use EQ-7, because desired overdrive I do not have. Along with the flanger and chorus can get a good tone era The Wall-On an island. A little hard to course with Pulse. However, what about fuzz tone era ’68-’75? I once tested Dunlop FuzzFace – not the slightest likelihood in the sound of Gilmour / Hendrix. I love the tone of live performances ’69-’75 such as Echoes, AHM, Wembly live etc. Which pedal is available in shops pedal Fuzz appropriate for that use or interpretation of the original clones bc-108.
By the way, I’ll be at Roger concert in Moscow!)
[I'm using an AnalogMan Sun Face BC108. Similar pedals would be the MJM London Fuzz (blue), Fulltone 70s, MXR Classic Fuzz, Dunlop Hendrix Fuzz Face etc. Keep in mind though that a fuzz needs a loud tube amp for those smooth punchy Hendrix/Gilmour tones. Smaller amps, solid states and low volume will often make the fuzz sound thin and harsh. The RAT is capable of some pretty convincing fuzz tones and you can also check out a Muff as well. - Bjorn]
bjorn,
you get all these requests: “what do you think of…?”, “would you recommend…?”, “can i get a good gilmour-tone with…?”
and i’m so deeply sorry that i have to be one of those guys myself now.. :(
:)
i was thinking of getting a throbak overdrive boost. the problem is that i can’t test it because i cant’ find it here in germany and i hate the process with returning things i bought from foreign shops.
is this pedal worth spending 200 gbp? or is it one of those effects i have to play at 160 db to get a good tone with? because i only play at home on lower volumes.. am i better off with a maxon?
thanks in advance, and thanks again for the great site and work!!
greets!
[No worries Richard :) Funny you should ask. I'm working on a review of the Overdrive Boost. It's based on the old Colorsound Powerboost with a transparent tone and not at all like a Maxon or Tube Screamer. Depends on what amp you're using. The clean boost works nicely on all kinds of amps but if you want to use it as an overdrive you should have a tube amp. I'll have the review up in a day or two. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
Nice update! So far good job with the weekly tips. They have been very helpful. What is your take on noise suppresors such as an MXR smart gate or Boss nS-2? I know Cornish listed David using a smart gate in the 70′s and I get a lot of noise from my dg-2 and byoc muff so I was thinking of getting one. Thanks!
[Thanks Tyler! Please see this feature for some tips (bottom section). - Bjorn]
Here bjorn i found this, thouhg of course you already know the songs haha, but to anyone els who may be interested here a link to a site with the Hal Leonard On An Island Song Book, for only $24! whereas ive seen em els where for $5o+
http://www.get-it-all.net/store/product_info.php/products_id/2725?ref=fg
[Thanks! - Bjorn]
Hello,
Have a look at this :
http://www.youtube.com/user/PinkFloydNutter#p/u/1/d5pH6UwngR0
(Australian Pink Floyd Show gear)
Cheers
[Cool! - Bjorn]
Hello,
one question: I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (40w). This is considered a small amplifier?
I also have a distortion as the only OCD, but I’m a little unhappy with him because I think it has little sustain and a little saturation (probably not best for my equipment). On the other hand ended up ordering a BK Butler Tube Drive, because I think this has more saturation and less gain. I use only the EMG DG 20, and generally like pedals with saturation, compression and not glaring pedals! What do you think?
The RAT is a pedal I’ve ever experienced and I will buy, because actually it’s really saturated, compressed with very sustain at the same time clear, is not an uncontrolled distortion.
Hug
Daniel
[A 40w combo is about right there in the middle I guess. A bit too big for your bedroom but not as wild as a 4x12" stack :) The Butler is not a mild pedal. Although it's capable of producing a transparent clean boost it's near fuzz on high gain settings. Lots of compression when you crank the tube and tons of sustain. It's incredibly dynamic and responds well to even the slightest volume adjustments and picking techniques. I'm not sure you will experience it as a milder pedal compared to the OCD but it's definitely more transparent and dynamic. The RAT is a classic distortion with lots of mid range, compression and sustain. Incredibly versatile and easy to get great tones with. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
i just want to ask you if the ’85 Whiteface Rat really has the same sound as the vintage one?
Keep up with the good work,
Luka
[Haven't had the chance to try it but I see it gets great reviews. Check out the Distortion from Retro Sonic as well. It's a RAT with lots of cool features. - Bjorn]
Hi Björn,
I sometimes re-visit your site and scroll through the articles and always find something new to think about. This time I started to think why is that I always need to compromise my overdriven sounds because if I dial in a killer overdriven sound, then the clean sound cannot be heard at all. Usually I get them about even volumes by setting the amp that it already breaks (= compresses) quite heavily but there goes my clean sound :(
I just wanted to ask any tips for balancing the volume between the clean and dirty sounds if any. Because like you were writing in the article everything has effect on everything, so if I have a good distortion sound but it is too loud, turning down the level from the pedal usually kills the bite from the sound.
I think that best solution is to have two different amps? One for clean and one for dirty :D
[Depends on the amp. If you feel you need to crank the amp and the pedal volume to get the tones you want it may be the result of your amp not having enough headroom. Hiwatt, Sound City, Reeves, Mesa, Peavey Classic, most Fenders etc has tons of headroom with a clean punchy tone. These allows a powerful clean tone and creamy overdrives depending on the pedal you use. Marshalls and most smaller solid state amps has very little headroom and breaks up more easily. Forcing these to stay clean and adding gain pedals for overdrives can be a challenge because the clean tone will sound flat and the pedal won't respond that well to the amp tone. Not sure if you understood what I'm trying to say but it depends very much on the amp. The ideal Gilmourish setup should allow you to have the desired clean tone and add gain pedals without having to boost the volume. - Bjorn]
Hi Björn,
First i would like to thank you for your wonderful website, it’s a real gold mine for people like me who looking to approach (humbly) the mythic Gilmour sound !!!
I own a Maxon OD 808 and i recently order a Pig Hoof and i would like to know if you think that the maxon will be a good boost for the pig hoof. Actually i own a regulat big muff (NY reissue V9) and when i use both pedal together (maxon+muff) the sound is really horrible and there is some lose of volume when i try to bend a string. I don’t know if it’s because it’s a bad combination or if it’s just because my actual muff is crappy !!!
Thank U.
David.
[Thanks for your kind words David! The current US Muff model has little in common with the early 70s pedals. It's dark, muddy and just too wild. The Maxon has lots of mid range, which doesn't quite go well with a Muff. You might experience volume drop and a choked and muddy tone. I'd rather use a more transparent overdrive or booster like the Boss BD2, Colorsound Powerboost, ThroBak Overdriveboost, Tube Driver and similar. The Maxon is better used as a dedicated overdrive and not as a boost. - Bjorn]
Hi Again !!!
Thank for your really quick answer !
Do you think that the regular BD2 will do the job or i must buy the Keeley mod one ?
Or, i’m also interested by the banana boost from electronic orange (maybe the cheapest coloursound clone actually available ) do you ever try it or hear something about it ?
Thank U.
David.
[I haven't had the chance to try the Banana yet so I can't tell but the feature you commented on will tell you something about how to use the Colorsound and similar pedals and what to consider. The stock BD2 will do fine although I recommend the Keeley for a much warmer and smoother tone. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, I’ve been strolling through all the comments on this page and still can’t get my head around a distortion pedal that would sound great through my Marshall AVT50 (solid-state amp). The overdrive channel on this thing is atrocious, and I’m currently looking into either the BD-2 or Turbo RAT.
I’ve been through the DS-1 and OS-2, both which sound extremely harsh through the clean channel of my amp (too much treble response regardless of how I adjust the pedals and the amp EQ). I would assume running an OD-3 or SD-1 (or any TS-type pedal) wouldn’t make it sound any better? HELP?!?
[I'm not too familiar with the AVT but from what I understand it has a tube in the preamp section. I guess that's making the amp a bit more agressive - at least if you utilize the internal gain stage. The best way to start off with your Gilmour tones is to set the amp as clean as possible with the EQs around 50% and the master a bit lower than the channel volume. This allows more headroom with enough power to back up your pedals. Bright amps may sound warmer with mid rangy pedals like the Tube Screamer and RAT. These has a warmer more saturated tone ideal for solid states and bright amps. Big Muffs and the more transparent overdrives like the Tube Driver and BD2 might just be too bright with a nasty bleed in the gain stage making your tones harsh and trebly. I'd go for a RAT for a distortion or one of the many clones like the Retro Sonic Distortion or the Jam Pedals Rattler. These also have multiple mode and tone options for further tone shaping. For overdrive I'd get a Tube Screamer like the Ibanez TS9, Maxon OD808, Way Huge Green Rhino or the excellent Fulltone OCD, which is probably one of the more versatile overdrives on the market. Keep in mind that you always need to adjust the settings on both your amp and pedals to get the tones you want. Don't get too caught up in what you read but do the needed adjustments to get a warm smooth tone. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Thanks for the response Bjorn! It’s kind of you to have the patience to reply to all the questions posted here. Since I need a tonally mid-range pedal to balance my solid-state amp setup, I was wondering if the (block reissue) Distortion + or III by MXR would do the job? I’ve read that the former pedal uses an identical circuit to the Voodoo Lab Overdrive (not Sparkle Drive), rumored to inspired the Fulltone OCD (one of your recommendations).
Are you sure the OCD is a modded TS9? Based on online reviews, it’s supposedly a “cranked-Marshall-tube-amp-in-a-box” (of course we know these type of pedals, along with TS clones have been done to death in the boutique market)?
[Of the MXR pedals I think the III would be better than the +. The + needs a cranked amp and in my oppinion it fails as a dedicated overdrive or booster. The OCD is a TS9 clone but it's based on the same tone. Keep in mind that the TS9 was also designed to capture the sound of an overdriven tube amp so the concept of any mid rangy overdrive is basically the same. The more transparent boosters like the Colorsound Powerboost, Boss BD2 etc are designed to overdrive a tube amp, so these are designed a little differently. - Bjorn]
I heard the Fulltone OCD has an “old” version 4, as well as a “new” version 4 (brighter, “fuller” and better bass response)? It’s essentially a more amp-like and gainier Fulldrive 2 isn’t it? Can “Dumble-in-a-box” overdrives like the Zendrive or Blackstone be likened to Tube Screamers? I’m also wondering if you’ve ever tried the HotCake by Paul Crowther and Timmy by Paul Cochrane; and if these pedals are clones or resemble any pre-existing overdrives? (whew) So many questions all of a sudden!
p.s. Do you happen to know if the BOSS CS-3 is a ROSS, Orange Squeezer or an optical compressor?
[I haven't that much experience with different OCDs so I can't tell if there's any difference. It's similar to the Fulldrive but perhaps a bit more amp-like if you will. More gain. The OCD, Zendrivem Blackstone etc are all either based on (not cloned) or in the same tone family as the Tube Screamer. All these pedals are meant to sound like a cranked amp, while the more transparent overdrives like the Colorsound Powerboost and Boss BD2 are meant to be cranking the amp. I don't think neither of the compressors you mentioned are optical. Check out the BYOC, Demeter, Maxon, Electro Harmonix etc... - Bjorn]
It seems like out of all the boost pedals available in the boutique market, the MXR Micro Amp appears to be the most subtle one. It doesn’t seem to mess with your treble frequencies and gives a clean volume boost that borderlines pushing a tube amp preamp into its overdrive state. I’m judging all this based on YouTube demos. By the way, is Bjorn a Finnish name? You share the same name as BJFE’s founder.
[A good booster should be transparent and be able to give you a nice clean boost. The Boss BD2, Colorsound Powerboost, MXR Micro Amp etc will all sound very similar. The Colorsound and BD2 will also produce aggressive gain as well. Bjorn is an old Nordic name popular among the Vikings. I think it originates from Norway, Island and Denmark but it's also used in both Sweden and Finland too. I'm Norwegian :) - Bjorn]
I hope all is fine for you, due to the recent event in Norway. I’d still like an answer regarding which category of compressors the BOSS CS-3 belongs to. My apologies if I’m being a little persistent here :p Also, do you happen to know if David Gilmour ever used a Klon Centaur?
[The CS3 is electric as far as I know. Not quite sure on the technical aspect but a VCA type perhaps? There aren't that many true optical compressors on the market. The Electro Harmonix White Finger is optical, while the Black Finger has a tube. Most pedals are either VCA or digital simulating the optical tone. David has tons of pedals in his collection so there might be a Klon there somewhere but there are no sources indicating that he has used one. - Bjorn]
If I may add, I’m also wondering what the Big Muff Pi with Tone Wicker would sound like into a solid-state (tone OFF, wicker ON). To me, it sounds like a bright (higher treble response compared to the 2000 NYC reissue) and ballsy (low-end bass retained) distortion pedal on tube amps (again, all based on YouTube demos)?
[Depends entirely on the amp, guitar/pickups and the pedal settings. You can get some really great tones with the Wicker on both solid states and tube amps but in general a Muff won't sound as good on a solid state as on a tube amp. I'd much rather go for a RAT or something similar as explained in the article. - BJorn]
Hey again, have you ever tried the Demeter Fuzzulator? I’m wondering whether this pedal is based on the Big Muff or Fuzz Face. There also seems to be quite a debate amongst guitar players on whether the Big Muff is a distortion or fuzz pedal.
[The Fuzzulator isn't really based on anything but it's closer to a classic fuzz than a Muff. You can set it up for multiple fuzz tones but it doesn't have nearly as much gain and saturation as a Muff. The thing about fuzz, overdrive, distortion etc is that people tend to call just everything fuzz or distortion but these are two different effects both tonewise and technically. Then you have the overdrive, booster etc. The Big Muff is tricky because while it's tonally closer to a fuzz it's technically closer to a distortion. The intention was to make a sustain pedal with as much gain as possible so I guess you can say that it was the forerunner for the distortion that appeared in the late 70s with the RAT, Boss DS1 and MXR Distortion +. - Bjorn]
I don’t seem to recall when Gilmour ever used a Cry Baby or Whammy, but it’s listed on his Wikipedia page?
[David rarely used wah wah but he did frequently in the early days on songs like Set the Controls For the Heart of the Sun, Stay, Echoes etc. The Wahmmy has been used on Marooned and The Blue and he also used it on Sorrow a couple of times on the 1994 tour. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
and thanks for the great site! I have enjoyed many times in reading your articles and especially your comments on “Overdrive and distortion” site. And of course thanks go to all gilmourish fans who have send their questions and suggestions!
Like many others I have also struggled with distortion-overdrive-boost issue. I bought ProCo Rat 2 (with LM308) and I did a Keeley modification on it. I highly recommend to do that if you have original version of the pedal. What makes me wonder is what kind of overdrive and/or booster should get with Rat 2.
Bjorn, you have mentioned several times that Boss BD-2 is a good unit with Rat 2. But what is it really for? Is it for overdriving or boosting (as a clean boost) the signal? If former, should I try Boss SD-1 also – if latter, could another option be Empress Effects’ ParaEq? With those two Boss pedals I don’t mean original pedals but the Analogman modifications (at this moment I have bias for them). Mike from Analogman says on his site that both BD-2 and SD-1 can be used as a clean boost.
So, what do you recommend?
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) The term boosting is often used when you're either using an overdrive or fuzz to further distort a tube amp. Hendrix would crank his Marshalls for distortion and add a fuzz face for an even wilder tone. Gilmour's setup is slightly different in that his amps are set clean and he's using a combination of distortion/fuzz and overdrive for his main lead tones. He doesn't actually boost the gain or volume but adding a transparent overdrive after say a Muff, adds a bit more character and a fatter tone. The overdrive acts more like an EQ, although an EQ alone would do the same job. The Muff is set about unity level with the amp with a fairly mild gain and behind it he adds a Tube Driver that's set slightly above unity level with a very slight crunch, almost clean. The RAT has a very saturated tone and works nicely alone but a mild transparent booster like the BD2 or SD1 would go nicely with it and tightening the signal a bit. Set the Rat up for a mild distortion and add the booster behind it with a clean tone. Adjust both pedals for the needed tone but keep in mind that too much gain means noise. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
Thanks for the answer! Now I have the total picture.
I did some additional research on overdrives and boosters. On one guitar gear discussion site I found out a good hint: Wampler Ecstasy Drive. It seems to go from clean boost to overdrive and even to distortion. Four knobs – volume, gain, tone and bass – and a 3-position toogle switch for tone changes. The sound samples are pretty promising.
http://www.wamplerpedals.com/overdrives/ecstasy.html
Have you tried that pedal?
I must say that I am not looking for just Gilmour sound so versatile overdrive/boost pedal is more than suitable for me in order to get hard rock or heavy rock sound also. But I am still considering to get Empress ParaEq for solo boost.
[Sorry for my late reply. I've never tried the Ecstasy but it sounds like a classic transparent overdrive with a bit more gain than the Colorsound Powerboost. Hard to tell how it functions as a clean booster but the I guess it will work fine. As explained if you intend to boost, say, a Muff, the booster should be able to produce pure clean tones without any breakup. The Ecstasy seems like a versatile pedal though for both clean boost and the heavier rock tones. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, great website and thanks for putting it on the web for us! I’ve finally bought a Peavey Classic 30 and am very happy with it, I’m just using the normal channel to get the clean sound and have a few nice pedals (and one Boss DS-1 I want to get rid of once I can find a nice distortion). I bought a BBE Green Screamer as my OD and while I am happy with it can see what you mean about it being different from that transparent boost, but unfortunately can’t play loud enough at home to get a Colorsound.
Do you think an EQ after the Green Screamer might be a good idea to help take out some of the mids and get a more transparent boost? I’m assuming it’s low to middle range ‘mids’ that are boosted with this pedal. :)
[I don't think an EQ would fully solve the "problem" with the GS or similar mid range boosted pedals. You might be able to get a bit more presence but the nature of these pedals are too different from the more transparent boosters. The Colorsound, ThroBak etc really needs a high volume to shine but check out the Boss BD-2 for a similar tone that works better on lower volume. - Bjorn]
First of all, thanks for this website! I’ve been a huge David Gilmour fan my whole life, and lately I’ve made building a Gilmour-toned rig my favorite hobby. Right now I’m looking for an overdrive. I play on a late 80′s/early 90′s Peavy Bandit 112, which is pretty formidable for a solid state amp. I have a modern Big Muff and a Tonebone Classic that I use as a clean booster. I’ve gotten a fairly convincing clean PULSE tone akin to the beginning of Coming Back to Life with this. Now I’m looking for an overdrive for the louder solos and booming songs like Sorrow. I’m thinking about the Tube Screamer. What do you think?
[Not quite sure what you mean. David's using a Muff + booster setup on Sorrow so you should be able to get a similar tone with your pedals. If you're considering a new booster for the Muff I'd go for something transaprent like BD2, Tube Driver, ThroBak Overdrive Boost etc. A Tube Screamer has too much mid range to be able to boost properly. If you're looking for a better sounding Muff I recommend the excellent Blackout Effectors Musket for those PULSE tones. Check out the Electronic Orange Pig Hoof as well. - Bjorn]
I know where I confused you. I’m not looking to replace the Tonebone, I like what it does as a clean booster. I know Dave used 2 tube drivers on PULSE and the 06 tour, one as a clean boost and one for overdrive, so I’m thinking about getting an overdrive in addition to what I have for that effect. Maybe that’ll be too much for my rig, I figure I’ll try before I buy.
Another question, do you recommend putting the compressor before or after the muff in the chain?
Finally, just a curiosity, the page on the Wall says that he had both a fuzz face and a muff in his rig, did he use them together, or just one at a time?
[OK, any of the ones I mentioned in the last comment works nicely for David's overdrive tones. You should only use a clean booster with the Muff though. The compressor should always be in front of the Muff and distortions. I don't think David used the fuzz on the Wall tour. The board was also used on the Animals tour where David used fuzz on Money. You should never use distortion (Muff) and fuzz together. Too much gain and noise. - Bjorn]
Alright, well after more playing around with my pedals, I think I’ve got the tone I want without adding more (except for an electric mistress which is the final remaining piece to my puzzle). And I’ve found that the Tonebone classic is a pretty sweet pedal, you should check it out if you haven’t. I’m no expert but it seems very similar to the tube driver. It has knobs for volume, bass, treble, filter, and drive. Then it has switches for presence (bright, flat, dark), mids (+0 db, +7 db, +12 db), and the best feature, the drive gain (+0 db, +9 db, +20 db). I play with the volume, treble, bass, and filter all on 2:00, the drive on 8:00, and the gain on +20 db. With my guitar volume at about 5 I got instant Coming Back to Life. With the guitar volume all the way up it gave me a really nice, slightly crunchy distortion for the second and third solos. I bought mine from a friend but I think new they’re like $275. A bit expensive but should be easier to find than a Chandler/BK Butler.
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I’m little bit confused using a BYOC OD-2, ts808 clone, to replicate convincing tones of some classics like SOYCD or Dogs of War from DSoT or Castellorizon (I found that the RAT2 Keeley 3way mod. alone with the switch set on “Mighty Mouse” position is a better choice for it – Dist.13:00 Filter 8:00 Vol. 12:00).
I’ve seen that you mostly used the 808 with the BD2 in front of the BD2 and in few cases behind it. How do you arrange and set these pedals? I didn’t have any other TS808 and the OD2 seems really noisy, the pedal issues an annoying hiss when engaged even compared to other hi-gain pedals like the RAT or Large Beaver. What about of the originals? My rig is AMSTD>CS69>BYOCclassicComp>OD2>BD2keeley mod.>MISTRESS>DD3>CUB12R
Any suggestion? Is the CE2 essential for those songs?
Thanks for your help!
Luca
[I haven't tried the OD2 but it's based on the TS, which is quite noisy. Especially if you crank the gain and keep the tone quite high. The noise comes from the boosted mid range. I mainly have the BD2 after the 808 with a clean boost setting. The 808 is set with an overdrive tone. - Bjorn]
Don’t forget the inexpensive Joyo Ultimate Drive, an affordable OCD clone. I recommend it. It’s fantastic!
[Thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
I suspected that was the very nature of the pedal …
I have read and been reading this article several times and everytime I find something new between the lines!
Thanks for your kind help!
Luca
[Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Luca and others!
As you can see above, I have struggled with same kind of issues with my ProCo Rat 2. I tried a couple of overdrive and boost pedals and I found a great solution: Okko TwinSonic Overdrive.
http://www.stompbox.de/twinsonic_english.html
The pedal can be used in several ways: as a clean boost, as an overdrive, as a treble boost and/or mid boost and as a boosted overdrive (booster before, after or both before and after the overdrive circuit). The pedal gives a fuzz-type of sound when gain, more and push are cranked up so it can be used without Rat to give nice singing sound. Well, I’m not selling my Rat… ;-)
The price is 249 € here in Europe (can be bought directly from Okko). In my opinion the price is not high if you think how versatile the pedal is.
Hopefully this helps.
Hi Björn!
Currently I’m using for bedroom playing/recording a ProCo RAT II and an Ibanez TS9 (the amp I use is a Laney Cub 12). Latelly I’ve been wondering about replacing the TS9 with something with more character… I was thinking of throwing in a Fulltone OCD, Throbak Overdrive Boost or a T-Rex Moller. What would be your choice?
Once again thank you for your amazing site and your precious tips!
Cheers
Sergio
[Depends on what tones you're looking for. The OCD is perhaps closest to the TS9 with a couple of additional features, a bit more gain and lower end. It works nicely on the cub12 and you can easily use it for boosting your RAT. The ThroBak is a great pedal but perhaps not that suited for smaller amps and low volume levels. I've never tried a Moller, so I can't really tell. - Bjorn]
Have to agree the Joyo Ultimate drive gets pretty darn close to an OCD for the price £25 off the bay it’s a steal , also for a cheap alternative to the classic Rat check out the biyang ds 8 (mouse) nails it even has the lm308 chip an built like a tank .
Have currently set myself a new years budget effects board challenge maximum of £40 per pedal it is certainly proving interesting scouring eBay , gumtree and Craig’s list when I have managed to complete my board will add it to the excellent gear gallery with mini reviews of my choices .
Happy new year Bjorn and all glimourish obcessives :-)
[Happy new year to you too! I need to check these out :) - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, I saw on Davids gear in 88-94 on your site that he used a Bob Bradshaw Remote Switching System. I cant find it anywere does it have another name and do u know how much it cost? Ty.
[Not sure you can buy David's boards. Most of the stuff Bradshaw made was custom designed. Check out Custom Audio Electronics for more details. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn! Great article, great website, great player… Great person :)
I think a point should be clarified though: does Gilmour gets is overdriven tone because its pedal are distorting the signal themselves, or because the strenght of the clean signal hits the pre-amp hard enough to saturate the tubes?
First case would mean that Gilmour doesn’t use tube saturation at all (except if he’s driving a Tube Driver hard enough of course)… Second case would mean that, after all, the modulated signal gets distorted… Would you mind explicating how Gilmour actually manipulates his signal?
Anyway, thanks for the article! Cheers!
[There are lots of articles on this site explaining this but in short. David's amps are always set very loud. They don't distort but the tubes are pushed hard to get more sustain and a allowing them to interact with the pedals. All gain pedals are set fairly mild but it is them that creates the actual distortion and overdrive. Since the tubes are pushed hard he doesn't have to crank the pedals since the interaction creates the sustain and gain he needs. The modulation pedals are placed after the gains, allowing them to colour the signal without getting distorted or altered. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Im using a strat with CS69 pickups into a Fender Hotrod Deville 410 with the usual amp settings you reccomened with slightly more pressence on the amp. Im using an ocd placed after a BYOC large beaver triangle version, however im having a hard time using the ocd as a booster for the muff. I play fairly loud where the amp is just about to break up. But when i put the muff on with the ocd, the ocd seems to just cause the muff to lose all of its pressence and make the amp sound like its covered in mud. Ive tried placing the ocd before the muff but that sounded way to harsh. Would you recomened a different overdrive/booster like the ColorSound or tube driver? Or am i missing something in my settings?
[The triangle is fairly dark and the OCD has a lot of mids - although not as much as the Tube Screamer. This is not the best combo and the tone often gets muddy as you point out. Buffered pedals, like Boss, doesn't help either... rather making it worse. It also depends on the pedal settings of course. I place the Muff first and keep the volume around unity with the amp and the gain at about 50%. The tone can be set according to the overall tone of your rig. Set the volume on the booster to slightly above unity with the amp and the gain to just at the edge of the break up. This way you're able to tame the gain and feedback. Either way you should perhaps consider a more transparent booster like the Boss BD2 (preferably Keeley), ThroBak OB, Tube Driver or similar. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
thanks for your incredible site. It’s a great source for everybody who wants to learn something about tone. My question is: Have you ever heard about Rodenberg GAS pedals? If not, here are just some basic facts: They are boutique pedals from Germany. I tried them this morning and instantly ordered one for me, the GAS-808. As the name of the model says, it was originally inspired by the TS-808, but it’s got its own sound and the mids are not that pronounced. It has a switch to add a little more bass. The sound is very open and smooth – just what I was looking for. The pedal works for a mild overdrive in front of a small amp – that’s the was I use it, because my music is more like swing and not that loud. Obviously, it’s an extremely versatile pedal and at the same time has lots of character.
[Thanks for the tip! Sounds interesting! I'll check it out :) - Bjorn]
i’m strictly a bedroom or in my case basement player. My drive pedals include way huge green rhino MkII,rat 2 newer one,tomorrow should have version 2 musket, and boss blues driver. I use to have version 1 musket so no suprises there but i’ve been playing with order since i just got the green rhino for my setup i think i like this order for my drive pedals guitar>green rhino>rat>musket>blues driver>amp there will be some other pedals up front like wah and univibe, i’m still building my collection back up. I am using my green rhino as main overdrive,rat for muff/fuzz face quality,musket for civil war/sovtek muff and blues driver is clean boost. I have blues driver and green rhino setup pretty similar gain wise but i get so much more sustain with rhino. I just wanted to say thanks for all the gilmourish tips. I was a early adapter of musket use to own #53 but this article is reason i went out and bought rat 2 couple years ago and recently a tubescreamer clone and blues driver. Keep up the good work.
[Thanks for sharing! - Bjorn]
Hi, Im trying to decide on an overdrive pedal and wondering what might be best out of my short list of Maxon OD808, Boss BD2 keeley, Voodoo Labs Sparkle ( these are in my price range!)
My setup is a Fender HSS Strat, Gibson Les Paul Studio, Fender Superchamp XD, TC Electronics Tone Print flashback Delay, RAT2 Keeley. I want solos such as “Time” to sound as authentic as possible, particularly using the Strat. Cheers!
[Based on your setup I'd go for the Maxon or Sparkle (the Maxon is better). The BD2 might sound a bit too bright on your amp. - Bjorn]
Do you recommend an order for: Octaver, Big Muff, Tubescreamer, Rat?? I use these pedals in the front of the amp…the order I use is: guitar, Octaver, Tubescreamer, Big Muff, Rat. I’ve been having trouble getting a good Big Muff sound thru my Fender Twin. I play it thru the clean channel. Is it meant to be played thru the clean channel or should I use some gain?? Any advice? Thanks!!
[Set the amp as clean as possible. See this feature for some Big Muff set up and tone tips. Is the octave an octave pedal or fuzz? If it's a fuzz it should be placed first. If it's an octave effect it could go first or last. I'd set it last or after the gain pedals to simulate an octave fuzz... Octaver > Big Muff > Rat > Tube Screamer > Octaver. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Im looking in to getting a good gilmourish boost pedal. My favourite tones are Davids late 70s – early 80s tones. Would you recommend the VintageFX Colordrive or the Throbak Overdrive Boost? I would only be using this as a boost pedal and not as an overdrive.
Thanks in advance!
[Both will do the job. The Colordrive is clean all the way up but I don't think it sounds as smooth and vintage as the ThroBak. I'd go for the ThroBak. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Love the Musket!! Absolutely stellar pedal. And for those interested I used it with Fender Pro Jr and it’s great at any volume.
My question is Rat ’85 Reissue or Retro-Sonic clone??
Thanks again for an amazing website
[Thank you Jon! The RetroSonic Distortion is a great pedal. It nails the classic RAT with a couple of added features for different tones. Very silent too. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
Jimmy Behan has made a clone of Big Muff Ram’s Head
http://www.jimmybehanfx.net/editions/rams-head
It seems to be very interesting package with extra switches but still providing the original Ram’s Head fuzz sound. I didn’t find any sound clips.
Do you, or anyone, have a touch on this one?
[Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out :) - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
I just discovered your Gilmour page and dig it, but it’s so much info and there are so many possibilities that I’m confused. I’m looking for “Animals” sounds, particularly “Dogs” and here’s what I’ve got to work with: ’60 Time Machine Strat; ’52 RI Tele; DRRI & Princeton Reverb amps; Mosrite Fuzzrite, Boss SD-1, Bad Monkey, Boss BF-2, Line6 DL4. Can I get into the ballpark with this stuff? Do I need something else to boost? Thanks so much for Gilmourish.com
Mike
[Hi Mike! Please check out this in depth analysis of Dogs. Read through it first and let me know if you need more help. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
As so many others have already said, I love your site. I played quite a bit back in the 90s but put in away after I got married. A few months ago I put all my gear up on craigslist but the I stumbled across your site. Curious, I dusted off a few of the pedals I rarely use and was amazed. Suddenly I was getting the tones I had been searching for. I have now set up a music room in my house and have added several pedal you have reviewed. This has had a domino affect on my family since now my daughter who is 12 and two step son, 10 and 13, are learning to play, and listening to Pink Floyd. It’s so cool to see how excited they get about the music and to hear them tell their friends about it. Thank you!!! You have no idea how much this has meant to me.
So now on to my question. I have serveral amp, a blues jr, classic 30, and a hot rod deville 212. The pedals I am using are a mxr dyno comp, red muck (love this pedal), tube driver (you are right about it sounding thinner on the smaller amps) TS808, DB-2, and a carbon copy. I play an American Standard Tele with three Strat Texas Special pickups and a Les Paul Studio. I primarily play my Tele. When using the BK Bulter to boost the Red Muck I find that unless I stay on my bridge pickup my low end seems to get clipped. I have tried running just those two pedals into the amp and get the same result. I have started using my BD-2 as my boost and it sounds good but not as warm. The Td is a bias model and I changed the tube to a 12au7. Any thoughts on this issue? Also any recommendation on pedal and amp combinations and setting would be awesome.
I have really love sitting down and experimenting with this since I found your site, though it can drive me a little crazy a times. Thank again Bjorn, from me and my family…
Karl
[Hi Karl. Thanks for all your kind words! Glad you enjoy the site :) Hard to say what might be the issue without having tried your rig but a common problem with both the TD and Muff is often that there's too much treble. Sounds strange perhaps but treble will add to the clipping if there's too much of it. Try lowering the treble on your amp to about 30% and lower the presence as well. This might sound dark but keep in mind that perceived treble and high frequencies also depend on volume so the louder you play the brighter the tone appear so you can roll down the settings quite a bit. Try also rolling down the treble on the TD as well. I mainly use the TD for boost or very mild OD... try this: volume 2:00, hi 11-12:00, bass 3:00, gain 10:00. Also, be careful with using too much gain when you're combining gain pedals. Set the TD up for a clean boost just on the edge of break up and the Muff gain around 50%. This might sound too mild but the louder you play the more aggressive it will sound. Adjust as needed. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Good morning Bjorn,
Thanks for your suggestions. As usually you were pretty much right on. It was a combination of too much treble at the TD and a little too much volume at the Red Muck. I lowered the treble at the amp and the TD and my neck pick up jumped to life. This was just the opposite of what I was doing to fix this problem. Again thanks.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading about placement of the Compressor vs Muff. Lot of what I’m reading suggests putting the Muff first inline then compressor then a boost. Do you see any advantage for doing this. I’m trying to understand more than just put this pedal first but more what effect on the sign makes this order better. I know it comes down to what sounds best or what works with certain pedals but just for the technical geek in me I’m wondering why this order.
Thanks again for all the work you do on this site…
Karl
[Glad to hear it worked out! The compressor is usually placed in front of all gain effects except fuzz pedals, which needs to be placed first in the chain due to its circuit. The Muff should be placed after the compressor. However, keep in mind that a compressor is also a gain effect so be careful when you're combining the Tube Driver with a booster. With the compressor this means that there are three gains engaged, which can cause a lot of feedback, noise and too much gain. I mainly use the compressor for cleans and mild overdrives and engage it only when it's needed during a solo or heavier parts like when you need to sustain a specific note or add some climax to a passage. Anyway, try different setups and hear how that sounds. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorne,
Great article btw! I was wondering, regarding the coloursound PB. When I set the volume of my amp to the volume I want, exactly how much boost do I dial in in the PB? I’m not sure exactly how much louder it needs to be than my amp to get the mild overdrive tones. It seems that my PB doesn’t begin to break up until around 3o’clock but Is this because the pedal isn’t being pushed enough and is not loud enough or is it because that’s the way the AA Fist is made? I have also added a master volume knob to mine btw.
Thanks a lot!
-Hunter
[Is it the Fist or Colorsound that you have? It's been a while since I tried the Fist but I think it's slightly milder than the Colorsound, which means that it doesn't distort that easily. Anyway, the settings depends on your amp and guitar. The more you push the tube amp and the hotter your pickups are the sooner the pedal will distort. You just have to try different setups and see what fits your playing and rig. - Bjorn]
Do you think that the MXR Distortion+ would do a good job in boosting the Big Muff and for using it as just an overdriven Tube Driver?
[Not really. It's not powerful enough to be used as a booster I think nor an overdrive. It's better for cranking an already distorted amp. Check out the Boss BD2, ThroBak Overdriveboost, Fulltone OCD or Way Huge Pork Loin instead. - Bjorn]
Hiya there Bjorn, hope u been doing well mate!
Wanted to congratulate you once again on a great job by writing this very useful technical guide about probably the most significant features for anyone who’s setting up their pedal board & wants to achieve a good tonal balance with their choice of pedals… It sure has opened my eyes a whole lot more :-)
At the moment I am also looking for a nice quality booster pedal myself & thought I’d bring to your attention what looks to be a great new product by TC Electronic called – Spark Booster.
I’ve only read & hear what I could about it, since it’s just hit the market, but honestly from all angles it promises to be one great pedal in this particular application!
It has a very transparent tone that looks to be made specifically for boosting your existing o’drive/ distortion/ fuzz pedals in front of it. Here is a snippet from the TC site describing it:
“The Spark Booster’s level knob allows you to add 26 dB of boost – it raises your volume without altering the character of your tone in any way. Spark Booster’s Gain knob is perfect for adding a hint of breakup or slight compression to a clean amp.
The active EQ controls consist of Bass and Treble knobs – which allow you to cut and boost these frequencies. They form the perfect tone shaping tool and because they are active EQs, Spark Booster can amplify frequency areas as well, and be used to create deep, extended lows or to add beautiful top-end sparkle. Also, Spark Booster is True-bypass, guaranteeing optimal tonal integrity. Rounding out the feature set of Spark Booster is a mids toggle switch that allows for three settings. The ‘Clean’ setting means the pedal boosts your signal equally across the frequency spectrum. The ‘Fat’ setting fattens up sounds and adds life and punch to your sound, and allows for precise tonal shaping with the EQ and Gain knobs. ”
It also has bass & treble knobs to fine tune the frequencies that are usually pre set in other pedals. On top of that, it’s also true bypass which is another advantage over the Boss type pedals & the negative issues arising with the buffered circuits in them.
At the moment I have a Tech 21 Double Drive pedal that is capable of clean drive boost & sounds ok, but since I haven’t personally tried any others yet, like the BD2, it’s a bit hard for me to judge. Have you yourself tried out the Double Drive perhaps?
Anyways, it looks to me like the TC might be a worthy contender amongst these pedal types & hope I can try one out soon. I have no doubt that the Boss & Fulltone pedals sound good, but it helps to know there could be also other ones our there, especially like this one which looks as if it already has many of the “mod” features that those other pedals don’t have in stock form. Not a bad price too, around $130. If in case you get the chance Bjorn, would you be able to check it out too & give us your opinion, would be very helpful as always :-).
Thanks again for your help mate, much appreciated!
Tom C.
[Hi Tom! I haven't had the chance to try the Spark Booster yet but it sounds very promising. From what I understand it pretty much a clone of the classic Colorsound Powerboost that David used in the 70s. Seems that TC has tweaked it for a bit more versatile tone, which comes in handy on smaller bedroom setups. The added 3 way tone switch also allows you to add a bit more grit for certain situations. I'm very much looking forward to try this one :) - Bjorn]
Cheers mate! :-)
I tell you, I’m seriously excited about the release of this pedal & have a good feeling you’re hunch is correct that it’s a clone of the Colorsound PB ! Hopefully a great one at that too :-). Am wondering how it may actually rate along side the ThroBak pedal since that’s supposed to be one of the better clones out there, as rated by yourself too…
As you said, what would truly be great is if it really could be properly utilised in a smaller (home) setup as well. That would be just awesome since it could give players the best of both worlds, as well as extra tonal flexibility with its tone/bass/mid controls. A very affordable pedal too!
Btw, just on another subject, I’m also looking to maybe getting a BBE Sonic Stomp pedal. Have you by any chance tried one & had any positive thoughts on it? I felt that perhaps instead of using an eq pedal this instead could inject some good useful dynamics into my existing sound…
[I haven't tried it and I'm a bit reluctant towards these kinds of pedals. My opinion is that a pedal board only should include the nesseceties and a good booster, like the Spark Booster, is a much more effective way of enhancing the tones. The pedal can act as a boost, EQ and overdrive... that's three pedals in one, which means less cluttering, cleaner signal and easier to operate. - Bjorn]
Yes you’re right, it makes sense having a more cleaner & less cluttered signal path for a better, purer tone. Less is more.
Was only perhaps considering the BBE based on positive user reviews, but all in all i believe too that the Spark Booster would cover a lot more ground. Hope you’ll have the chance to test it yourself soon!… Thanks for the help again mate, very much appreciated!
Tom C.
[Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hello again Bjorn. As you advised, I re-read the “Dogs” analysis and the other “Animals” related articles, and this page regarding the effects, too. I’m just a living room player who rarely jams with others; the amps I’d be using run from 5 watts to 22 watts. Will the current production Boss BD-2 and Proco Rat get me 90% there? Or, will I be 100% happier with the Keeley modded BD-2 & a Retro-Sonic Distortion, both of which will cost twice as much? Thanks again for Gilmourish.com.
[Difficult questions of course. Depends on how picky you are :) The Stock BD2 and RAT will get you very close. Something in between and equally versatile are the TC Spark Booster and Dark Matter. A bit up in price but I think that would pay off :) - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
I’m currently using a Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue 40W. You have advised that pedals such as the Big Muff and Tube Driver may not sound very good on a smaller amp. Would you consider this a smaller amp? I’d really love to get a Tube Driver but I’m not sure my amp can handle it. I love my Blues Deluxe, but it’s certainly no 100W Hiwatt in the volume department.
Thank you for the invaluable advice your site has provided.
[Small is relative. A 10w could handle even the most demanding pedal and make it sound huge while a 50w would just choke. It depends entirely on the amp's character and how you use it. The Blues Deluxe would go very well with Muffs and the Tube Driver but as with all amps, these pedals needs a minimum of volume to open up and to get that smooth tone. Go for the Tube Driver if you're able to play fairly loud at home or if you're playing with a band with the amp. If not, check out something more versatile like a Keeley BD2 or Fulltone OCD. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
My rig is very simple, as I’m trying to respect the pure tone of my single channel 20 watt tube amp and my Tele. So I only carry a TC Electronic Nova Drive pedal and a TC Electronic Flashback delay. I base the sound on the amp and push it from there. But I’m in need of a pedal to boost for some solos. Under a gilmourish approach, could you please suggest a pedal to use in conjunction with my Nova Drive? Should I go for another dist/od or fuzz pedal to place behind the Nova Drive or should I just get a boost? Obtaining more sustain in the process would be greatly appreciated as well.
Thanks in advace!
[The Nova Drive should be able to give you the sustain you need. You can also use the overdrive channel on the Nova to boost the distortion stage. However, I recommend a more transparent booster for maintaining the tone of your amp and guitar. Check out the Boss BD2 (preferably the Keeley model) and the new TC Spark Booster. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn !
I was wondering if you can suggest me a nice setting for my BD2 (regular model) in order to correctly boost my Pig hoof.
Thx a lot in advance,
David.
[Depends on what pickups and amp you're using but I usually set it fairly clean with the tone at about 10:00, volume 1:00 and gain 8-9:00. - Bjorn]
Re hi !
Thx very much for your quick answer, i’ll check that !
Actually, i’m using a Fender stratocaster classic player 60′s with CS 69 pickups and a laney cub12r (following your advices ;) ), i’d should probably mention that in my first post … :s
[No problem :) - Bjorn]
Firstly – thanks so much for this incredible resource. The information here is so useful. Having read as much as I can on here about the effects pedals I think I’m fairly set on what I’ll be buying. But I have one quick question.
You talk about the muff only working as intended when volume is involved to smooth things out. With the advent of these tiny all-valve amps (Blackstar HT-1 and Marshall 50yr anniversary 1w) will the muff respond as it should bearing in mind these amps get driven hard at much lower actual volumes? Or does the muff require actual high volume? I’m just wondering if the gig level characteristics of a muff could be had at lower volumes by using one of these amps?
Or do these amps still need a RAT?!
Thanks.
[The intention wasn't that you had to play loud to get the right tones from the Muff but at the time it was designed, in the late 60s, people would always use these huge stacks on stage since there was no monitoring. Although you had lower wattage tube combos there was no 1w or solid states available so there wasn't any "we need to make sure this pedal works on all amps" philosophy. You can definitely use Muffs on maller tube amps and stacks. Volume is relative to the amp circuit and the way the speakers "move air" to produce sound. Crank a smaller tube amp and you'd have much of the same result as with a big stack. That being said, not all amps goes well with Muffs and I think these 1w that you mention will distort too soon on their own to give you the clean basis for those smooth tones. The H1 has a 8" speaker, which is better for just plugging the guitar straight into the amp for practice and the Marshall breaks up way too soon. I'd rather take it up a notch for the HT5, Laney Cub or similar. - Bjorn]
Thanks very much for the fast reply, that’s really helpful. Thank you :-)
[Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, great new article of tone series! I’d like to ask you an advice about overdrive again. recently, I saw that you speak about TC Spark booster and not about MojoMojo. I was wondering about choosing a new overdrive because I’m not satisfied of my BYOC OD2. Do you think MojoMojo or Spark Booster could be a good replacement also thinking that I already have a Keeley-BD2 as a booster in chain? And between the two, what could be better for replicating the powerboost/tubedriver lead tones on the laney cub12?
Thanks in advance, regards!
Luca
[The Spark Booster would be the closest to the Colorsound. Both has a transparent tone, lots of lower end and tons of headroom. You can also drive these for fat overdrive tones. The Mojo Mojo is very similar although more of a dedicated overdrive, like the Tube Driver. Like the Spark Drive, it has a transparent tone. I don't think neither would do much if you already have a Keeley BD2. It should be able to give you the clean boost and the overdrive that you need. That being said, the Spark Drive has a bit more headroom and is perhaps better suited for boosting. You can also use this to boost or blend in character with the BD2. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Im new to this site and have to say it is mindblowing. Excelent work!. As a tone wise-man, ineed to ask your for your help. Im designing my tone and have to choose between some options on fuzzes.
I want to achieve that hi-gain sound of Time´s solo and Dog´s third (dry bluessy) solo…..I do own a Frantone “The Sweet” and love it but since it is so noisy i decided not to use it on my pedal board (noise gets really amplified by flangers and delays) and im looking for a new silent circuit option. After some research i think the choice could lay between Analogue Man BC-108 Sun face or a MXR Classic Fuzz, both are silicons but there is a notable diference on price. I also use a VOX Wha first on the chain and want to boost the fuzz with a Xotic RC Booster.
I want to make a good choice since im really into that (TIME-DOGS) guitar tone which i believe are the best of all time
Please advice. Thanks a lot
[Thanks for your kind words! Glad you enjoy my site :) Between the two, I'd go for the Sunface. It's probably the closest I've ever gotten to the classic fuzz tones. Do also check out the MJM London Fuzz (blue). As you've read in this feature - fuzz pedals are very sensitive to what amps you're using them with and they need some amount of volume to open up. If you're mostly playing at home, the MXR might be a better choice. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
Thanks a lot for your advice and quick replay, actually we are playing small venues but i also record a lot, in both cases i go with my fender hot rod deluxe for all tube tone. I think i can go for the MJM London Fuzz blue por budget reasons but im still afraid of having anoying feedback whenever i use it with my wha. The buffer switch was what made the MXR attractive in the first place, although i wasnt really in love with the tone, but maybe i should only change the order in my pedal chain.
Fender American Std Strat > VOX Wha Wha > (new silicon “silent circuit fuzz”) > MXR Dyna Comp > Xotic RC Booster > Electro Harmonix Flanger Hoax > Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man > Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.
Do you think i should try a new order in my chain?. Again, thanks for your advice
[Place the fuzz before the wah and you'll avoid all the feedback and osciallation issues :) - Bjorn]
Bjorn, great site, I stumbled across by accident but read every post! I wil try to keep this brief, and then get to my question(s) Im an older guy, born in the 50′s, got my first electric after seeing the beatles on ed sullivan, played in garage bands through high school, lots of rock, including floyd, and then joined the army. I continued to play in the army for a year, and then didnt even own a guitar for over 23 years. Fast forward, I decided to buy a guitar and amp, then bought a boss br800 hard disc recorder, followed up by an alesis sr 15 drum machine, a set of roland v-drums, a bass, and about 15 more guitars. I became really good at direct in recording, mixing, and mastering, and released a few cd’s / mp3′s and still get royalty checks. Anyway, a change in careers and a relocation back to my home town, got me interested in and now im playing in a band again. Playing live & recording, obviously 2 very different skills, especially when I was recording as a one man band. One of the reasons we gave up music in the 70′s was we were broke, now a lot of things are very affordable. I am now struggling through putting together-revamping my pedal board, and need help. First, I have found that I like building my own guitars, I have a “tele” and a “strat” i replaced pots and pickups, installed locking tuners, etc. The tele has a seymour duncan lil 59 in the bridge and a vintage stack in the neck. The strat has tex mex’s in it. Ive gone through several amps, but now play through a Peavey Classic 30, I swapped the stock speaker for an emnence swamp thang, and have a custom built cabinet with two 12′ eminance texas heats. Now, my pedal board, A fender tuner, a dunlop crybaby wah, Keeley modded DS-1, MXR dyna boost clean boost for playing leads when I need a little extra boost, then an MXR Smart Gate. I knew better and wasted a couple bucks on a behringer DC9 Dynamics Processor, i was going to try it just after the wah, within 5 minutes, it was off the board and in the junk pile. Im now looking at an inexpensive Slide Meister Valve Screamer TS808 JRC4558 Vintage Tube Overdriver, All metal Steel enclosure compact and powerful. JRC4558D CHIP, Analog circuit design. Level, Tone & Drive controls. True Bypass construction. Uses high quality parts such as German WIMA audio capacitance, high precision resistance etc…for clear signal. Ok, my questions are: 1. Have you used of any of these older pedals and are they acceptable quality for 70′s & 80′s rock, pink floyd to tito and tarantula, to JJ Cale & Clapton to southern culture on the skids, etc. 2. Have you heard of the Slide Meister Valve Screamer TS808, if so what do you think, yes or no? 3. Im interested but not sure with how you run lets say a tube screamer just before say the keeley modded DS-1? Is there maybe a general set up that can be fine tuned to ear? Rehearsals are coming along fine, we have played a few gigs, and have a big one in front of several thousand people in October. I guess since i could never afford much equipment as a kid, the pedals, order, and how they work together is very confusing to me, and all I really want is to sound my best. The other players have been playing non-stop for 35+ years, so help a rookie out if you can. You wont hurt my feelings, tell me to dump what is trash, give me nay tips on order of pedals, one guy told me to put the noise gate in the effectsa loop, I didn rally trust him, but he could be right. Everyone we play for, including my bandmates tell me I sound fine, but I have to beleive, I could sound better with some tips from you more experienced players. If you have time, feel free to email me at paulkearschner@insightbb.com, thanks for reading, considering, and advising if you do! All the best.
[Hi Paul! Sorry for my late reply. I haven't tried the Slide Meister but from what I can see it's a take on the classic 808 Tube Screamer. It's a very versatile pedal that'll cover most of the tones you're referring to. Perhaps not the ideal pedal for Gilmour's tones, since he's using more transparent overdrives like the Colorsound Powerboost and Tube Driver but the 808 should be able to nail most of those tones. It's fairly mild though so you might want to consider a distortion as well for the heavier sounds. In terms of boosting, the 808 can get quite muddy. It was designed to capture the tone of a cranked amp and for boosting a tube amp but it doesn't work that well boosting other pedals due to its pronounced mid range. In that case I'd go for a (Keeley) Boss BD2 or one of my favourites these days, the Wampler Plexidrive. Good luck with your playing! - Bjorn]
Hello gain Bjorn, Thanks for letting me bug you once in a while. I took your advice and have finally got a TC Electronic Dark Matter & Spark Booster. However, I’ve only tried using pedals a few times and am not really familiar with their use. I know this is asking a lot, but will you please give me a good jumping off point on the settings when using these pedals together to try and get the “Dogs” sound with a Tele or Strat out of small Fender tube amps. I assume from what you’ve written that, guitar>Dark Matter>Spark Booster>flanger>delay>amp is the proper way to chain the effects? Thanks again for Gilmourish and especially for your willingness to help. Sincerely, Mike D.
[Hi Mike! Obviously, the settings depends on what amp and guitar you're using, the amp EQ settings and how loud you play. The chain you've listed is fine. I assume you're using the Dark Matter for distortions and the Spark Booster for boost and overdrive. Try setting the amp as clean as possible and keep the treble at a moderate level. Fender amps tend to sound quite bright so it's always a good idea to roll down the treble quite a bit in terms of David's tones. Set the Dark Matter for a mild distortion and the Spark Booster for a clean boost with the EQs matched to the amp. It's hard to be more precise than this because you really need to set up the pedals based on your rig and playing. The trick is to not overdo the amount of gain but rather to use the booster for enhancing the overall tone. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, I finally got to try my rig with a full compliment of players, at near stage volume, and ended up unhooking everything but my carbon copy, and using the TS circuit in my 30 watter for my distortion. Foloowing your suggested settings for my Musket works quite well at home, but I had a hard time with the fuzz sounding muddy, and the gain was indredibly loud. I puchased the pedal lighty used, with the bag, and box, but no instructions. There is a little area on the vol. Knob that seems to have a stop, or preset range right between about one, and two o’ clock. The prevous owner mentioned something about there being an adjustment to this, do you know what I’m talking about? Also, my Carbon Copy really sounded almost like there was no volume to the delayed signal even with the mix knob fully clockwise. Could my pups being set too low cause this? Or, maybe a weak battery? It had a brand new alkaline energizer in it, and I forgot it had a adapter jack. I just find it hard to believe the effect would be that subtle, as the lights were very bright, so I don’t think it was the battery. It was one of thise strange days where nothing worked the way I thought it would, but even just using the TSA, w/ a weak sounding delay, I was amazed that I still got some very Gilmour like tones. Any suggestions?
Thanks my friend, look forward to getting you and Lindy together! KC
[Hi Keith! I don't think there's anything wrong with the setup. Playing with a band compared to playing at home, require a whole different approach to your setup. Tube amps tend to get darker and more compressed when you play louder. That's the tubes working and even though the amp sounds clean, the tubes can get quite aggressive, which can result in Muffs etc sounding muddy and dark. You can try to compensate with tweaking the settings on both the amp and Musket but be careful with adding too much treble in the mix, as this will only worsen the problem. The focus control on the Musket should clean up the signal a bit too. A 30w may sound huge at home and even in a studio without a band but once the other guys start playing you'll probably realize that the amp is too small. It depends on how loud you play and the acoustics in the room. A delay tend to sound bigger and more pronounced on lower volume but once you crank the amp you also need to adjust the delay settings - which goes for any pedal. The reason you perceive the delay as too dark is probably because the amp is sounding darker as explained above. I'll have a look at your other mails when I get the time. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Have you tried the Jetter Helium at all as a muff boosting pedal?
[Nope. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, or perhaps someone in the community. I notice that I have a scratchy volume pot, and that’s usually just dirt, and a little pot cleaner, or quickly moving it back and forth will clear a dirty pot up, but this ONLY happens between about 8, and full volume, and when I turn the volume all the way off, if I have any gain either by pedal, or amp, I’m getting tons of radio interference. Could I have a defective pot, or would this be more of a capacitor issue? Like I said, volume off, heavy AM interference.
Peace, Love, and Gilmourish! Uncle Ebb
[I would assume it just needs cleaning but I've never experienced radio interferance. Can't help you there... Anyone? - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
I need an advice – I have a small (30W) Hughes & Kettner SS amp (which I am planning to change, but not now). I play only in my apartment (neighbors never complained about the music, but I usually do not play very loud). I am looking forward buying some pedals, and after reading your great/super articles, I am between a Proco Rat 2 (modified by Keeley with the LM380 chip and a 3 way toggle – like the Retro-Sonic Distortion, but not sure if with similar results) and a Blackout Musket… For a Gilmour sound with my current setting, which one do you suggest? I am also planning to buy a Boss BD-2 modified by Keeley as well.
Thanks a lot! Greetings from Kiev,
Ivan
[Hi Ivan! In general, I would say that a RAT sounds better on SS amps than Muffs. The Musket is very versatile and you might be able to dial in some great tones with it but Muffs sounds much better on tube amps and a fairly high volume. I'd go for the RAT :) - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn! I note that in several of your articles you recommended using the OD unit after the distortion but eg according to David’s signal chain on Pulse tour, Tube driver for volume (or gain) boost was used before the Muff (or RAT, etc). Also some other sources claim that the OD should be placed before the distortion (eg, see Pierangelo Mezzabarba’s video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzpySj7NxJo&feature=relmfu , time: 6:44, where he says that after years of tryouts he can say that placing OD after the Muff is a common mistake but it certainly isn’t correct). Obviously, everybody can try for themselves, but I wonder why you have a different view, whether it is just a matter of your preference or you have other reasons as well. Many thanks. Juraj
[Well, for one, Mr Mezzabarba should have pointed out that this is his preference and not a rule. The booster can be placed either in front or after and how it will end up sound depends very much on the rig, how loud you play etc. I have tried to figure out why the sources says that David used the TD booster in front of the Muff in 94. This is the only time he's done that and I doubt that he really did it... perhaps the source is wrong or perhaps he changed things around I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Try different combos and hear for yourself what sounds best for YOUR rig :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, I ended up getting the Cub12R Combo in the end, thanks for the great advice. Now I’m turning my attention to which pedals to go with it. From what I can gather, the muff is first priority, is the Musket the best option for this amp or are there others more suited?
[I think that's a good choice yes. The Musket works nicely with the CUB. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, Firstly many thanks for such a great website and the time you put into it!
It has helped me tremendously in setting up some very nice combinations of gear!
I have assembled a very nice selection of pedals that sound really special but I’m a bit dissapointed with my Maxon OD808 overdrive. I know you like/recommend this pedal for smaller amps, and yes it is warm and super creamy but I’m not sure I’m a fan of the ‘Ibanez Tubescreamer’ sound. I feel it changes the sound of the Strat to less like a Fender!
I’d love to try a BK Butler Tube Driver but dubious that it wouldn’t work for me on a smaller amp, I couldn’t justify the expense, nor its huge size on the pedal board or the power requirement.
I know your thoughts on the Fender Superchamp XD & Fender Amps in general, but I think the FSCXD is one of the best sounding I’ve auditioned for the size to use at home, the only other one to make me change would be upgrading to the Fender 65 deluxe Reissue! (I’ve learnt and played music, piano , guitar etc for the last 40 years off & on!)
I mainly run the clean channel through a TC Electronics Nova Reperater Delay, Electro Harmonix Electric Mistress, Jam Pedals Red Muck, DryBell Vibe machine to a Black replica Gilmour Strat, EMG DG20’s, red MIM strat -CS69′s and a Gibson Les Paul Studio. All that combo sounds so nice and I really enjoy these pedals!
My question is what other Overdrive pedal alternatives are there that you could recommend without breaking the bank? To work well with the Red Muck? Not tubescreamer 808 based or is everything based on this chip ?? Preferably 9v Boss type power. I’ve wondered about the Fulltone Fat Boost FB3, Way Huge Electronics Green Rhio Overdrive, Boss BD2 Keeley…not sure whether these are Tubescreamer based? ….I guess what I’m after is an overdrive that doesn’t “colour”the sound of the Strat but provides a violin type of sustain, low noise, not too many knobs to fiddle with!….and a ‘tube type’ dynamic range. I like to play Time, solo from Another Brick in the Wall, Money, Marooned etc. Regards from NZ!
[Hi Ross! Thanks a lot for your kind words! Glad to know you enjoy my site :) The TS9/OD808 is a very versatile pedal and you can pretty much plug it into any amp and it sounds great. However, as you've experienced, it colours the tone due to the boosted mid range. This is especially noticeable on lower volume when the amp isn't allowed to shine through in the chain. They're are basically two kinds of overdrives - the TS type, which are designed to sound like a cranked tube amp and the transparent boosters, which are meant to be used for cranking an amp, tubes especially. The Green Rhino, OCD etc are based on the TS tone with a pronounced mid range and an overall creamy dark tone. The OCD is perhaps somewhere in between with a bit more presence etc but it doesn't work that well for boosting Muffs etc. On the other side of the spectrum, you have the Boss BD2 (Keeley preferably), Way Huge Pork Loin, ThroBak Overdrive Boost, Wampler Plexi Drive, Butler Tube Driver, Colorsound Powerboost etc... All these are very transparent, bright sounding and ranges from crystal clean to near fuzz. The Plexi Drive and Tube Driver are somewhere in that early Marshall land, but they're all very similar and great for Gilmour's rhythms and for boosting your distortions. Based on your preferred setup I would perhaps go for a Plexi Drive or the BD2. These works nicely on smaller setups as well as those huge stage setups. - Bjorn]
Didn’t see you recommend the Spark Boost in that last post. I’m hoping that isn’t a reflection of what your review of that pedal will be. It definitely sounds nothing like a Tube Screamer! :) KC
[No, it's certainly doesn't. I would say it's a fair clone of the Colorsound. The review is coming sometime soon. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn! I wonder wehere u bought ur Colorsound Power boost. I also wonder what new delay pedal sound close to the DD2 and the CE2, the CE2 is one of the best chorus pedal for its fat sound,but are there any new chorus pedals that are close to the CE2, and the dd2? Ty! :)
[I bought the CPB at Macari's in London in 2005. They make them themselves and I think you can only buy them at their store. I haven't quite found a pedal that sounds like the DD2. It's digital but it has a very warm and natural tone. You can track down one on EBay but you can get similar sounds with a TC Nova etc. The best CE2 clone I've come across is the Chorus Lab from Costa Lab. Check out my review here. It has the same warm, analog tone and a mix control that allows you to blend in the desired effect amount. - BJorn]
Currently I own the following: a Fender Champion 600, a VOX AC4TV, a Orange Micro Terror. I want to use an ABC switcher then keep the Fender Clean, modulation for VOX, and gain for the Orange. In the way of pedals at the moment I have an old Electroharmonix ploychorus, a Dunlop volume pedal, and a delta lab delay. I got rid of the double muff and the Boss superoverdrive because I didn’t like the sounds. What would you recommend for overdrive and distortion for my set up? Please remember that I live in an apartment in Spain and I can’t get loud.
By the way, for guitars I have a strat style, a tele style, a sg style, les paul style, an SHS configuration, and a Jaguar.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
[Hi Paul! Based on your setup and situation I would recommend something versatile that sounds great even on the lowest volume levels. One of my favourite overdrives at the moment is the Wampler Plexi Drive. It can produce a wide range of tones from transparent clean boost to warm overdrive and tube distortion. Very similar to the Tube Driver David's using but a bit more versatile. Check out the Fulltone OCD and Boss BD2 for similar sounds. Distortion-wise I'd go for something with a boosted mid range that stays warm and creamy on low volume. Check out the RAT and TC Dark Matter. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Ty so much for the reply, I also wonder if the OCD is better for overdrive rhythm then the BD2? I got a Bk butler tube driver but he dont like rhythm so much but solos he nail! so i need a good overdriver rhythm pedal as close to Gilmours. Best regards Peter
[Depends on the amp and guitar you'll be using with the pedal but personally I prefer the OCD for rhythms and the BD2 for clean boost. - Bjorn]
Hi, Bjorn!
Does boost so much important to get Davids Sound. I cant understand for what it needs.
I understand, that when you play solo, you click a boost and its sounds loud and warm, but i don’t have enough money to this pedal
my wish gear is Fender Stratocaster, Big Muff, Behringer Vintage Delay (by the way, is this delay is good, or this is crap and i don’t take Gilmour sound with it) , MXR Dyna Comp. I mean, can i take with this pedalboard gilmour sound, or i need PowerBoost too?
Thank You! Wish to quick answer!
[You don't need a booster. Most of the Big Muffs can be used alone with great results. David doesn't really use overdrives for boosting the volume or gain but rather to enhance the overall tone. Much like an EQ but an overdrive has a bit more character and works better with a Big Muff. See this feature for more info on boosting. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn!
Love the articles, being a gear noob myself. I currently own a Burswood Eletric and a Vox Pathfinder 10 amp. I don’t know for sure which model is the eletric, but it looks exactly like one of the black strats with white pickguard and works the same I guess. It was pretty cheap though, 100 euros with g-10 amp. The Vox is a 10 watt solid state.
Been thinking of getting my first pedal, and I think an overdrive pedal could come handy. Its a pain when switching from clean to overdrive on songs like Echoes, using the amp’s od channel. Do you think the Boss BD-2 would be a good choice? I have a pretty tight budget. Besides Floyd I mostly play Led Zeppelin and Queen, mostly 70′s stuff. A delay pedal would be my other choice (apart from a better guitar)
Thanks!
[Sorry for my late reply. I think the BD2 would work out nicely. I also recommend that you check out the new Mooer mini pedals. The Green Mile is a Tube Screamer clone with a bit warmer tone than the BD2. It's also worth checking out the Mooer Hustle Drive, a clone of the Fulltone OCD. Kind of a mix between tye BD2 and Tube Screamer. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
I’m very curious of the OCD, so can you tell me how well it works for boosting a Big Muff, and how does it cover David’s 70′s overdrive tones?
Thank you!!!!
[It's an OK booster but it has a bit too much mid range (similar to the Tube Screamer), which can make the Muff sound dark and muddy. The OCD is an excellent overdrive that'll cover most of DGs overdrive tones but I think a more transparent overdrive would be better for boosting. - Bjorn]
Great website with outstanding articles. I’m overwhelmed. I’m a casual guitar player chasing after the Gilmour tone and just an overall decent set up for home use. Per your amp article recommendations, i’m looking at the Peavey Classic 30. I have a MXR Carbon Copy and after this article, i’ll be taking a look at the Fulltone OCD and the Rat II. Are there one or two more pedals that you would recommend to complete this set up? I’m looking for all around rock music playability but with a really strong emphasis on Gilmour. Thank you in advance
[Thanks for your kind words! Depends on where you want to go. I think you've covered the basics so how about a modulation pedal, like a chorus, flanger or phaser? A phaser would cover the Dark Side and WYWH tones but it's perhaps not the most versatile pedal you can get. A flanger is a must for David's Animals/Wall/Final Cut tones but again, for little else... unless you want to play a lot of Van Halen :) A chorus will give your tone a bigger dimension and add a bit more space to your leads etc. You could also go for a more transparent overdrive for boosting the clean tones and the RAT. Check out the Boss BD-2 and the TC Electronics Spark Booster. - Bjorn]
Took a look at those Mooer pedals… they seem great! Think I might be going for a delay though, at the moment I have none. Mooer Reecho model seems like a good one, with the different modes and larger time range.
Thanks Bjorn!
[I've tried most of them and they're surprisingly good! Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi!
Just got my Mooer Ensemble King – a chorus pedal.
I never had the luck to play a boss ce-2 so i can not compare both. but i really like the mooer. it is gentle and subtle. it won’t kill you with washed out chorus floods. it ends where some other (modern) chorus pedals start. so it works well with clean sounds and overdriven ones. like it. and: it is really small ;-)
[Thanks for your comment! Agree with that. Great chorus tones! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, thanks so much for this site it’s a fantastic help to me! On your recommendation, I have the wonderful Cub12 – I’m now looking to add a distortion pedal to my board and have just purchased a TS clone (from a new London based company called Boo boutiques). I would love a similar tone to DG, and in one of my bands we even do (/attempt) a version of comfortably numb.
I’ve got it down to two pedals: 1) a RAT II or 2) Bass Big muff. I have a strat style with humbucker pickups and play in venues up to 200 people. What of these fine distortion pedals would you recommend?
Also, I have a seymour duncan pickup booster and I’m not sure where to put it in the chain – at the start or after the O/D & distortion? Or even not to have it all??!
many thanks for your time :)
[Thanks for your kind words, Paul! As you know, the RAT and a Muff are two different beats, so it's hard to compare them. The Cub handles both nicely so it depends on what tones you want. The RAT is definitely the most versatile, so you might want to check it out. For an even better tone, I recommend a clone, like the Jam Pedals Rattler. You can place the booster anywhere in the chain. I prefer them after the high gains. - Bjorn]
Hello again! Thanks for your response – in fact after reading all of your in depth reviews of muffs and their clones – i went for the Colossus! (ordered just a few hours ago). I’m really excited as it sounds amazing and has great reviews everywhere! I got it as I preferred the sound of a muff…(i’m really influenced by David’s tone!)
Since my previous post I realized that i had some of pedals in the wrong order and the booster wasn’t doing what it should – it just wasn’t working at the start of the chain – but after the O/D it worked a charm. :)
Now that i had a great distortion pedal on it’s way it has presented me with a new dilemma: I will have to take one of my existing pedals out to make room for it – so what one??
I have just two choices – either i take out the booster, or the EQ. What would you do? I don’t use the EQ that much – but it has it’s uses.
Many thanks,
Paul
[Good for you, Paul! I'd ditch the EQ. It's much more effective for the tone if you spend some time making sure that the amp is set up properly for the tones you need. Add the Colossus and a booster on top of that and set them up to match the amp. That should give you all the tones you need. An EQ should be used only if you need to enhance certain frequencies but a booster is a much more versatile pedal. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, Me again haha. Ive been looking at the Pulse gear pic that you have uploaded and the one kitrae have. About the tube drivers, i just wonder how Giolmour could get an overdrive sound from one of em when all the knobs are set the same. Maby the drive is set 0,5cm more but does it realy make that big diff?// Best regards Peter
[I don't think all those settings apply to what he actually used. Some perhaps, but he did have one set up for clean boost and one for overdrive. He might have adjusted the settings during a show as well. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!
I would like to change my overdrive pedal. At this time it’s a Maxon OD808, but I don’t really like it. I mean, it work good to boost the drive channel on my fender amp. But I hate the sound of it with my big muff.
So I don’t know what to choose between the TC Electronic Spark Booster and the VintageFX Colordrive 2. My guitar has the +25db medium boost (Sign. Clapton), so I don’t need a pedal with a lot of midrange ^^. Indeed I would like something of versatile wich can allowed me to switch between Pulse tone and Wish You Were Here tone (my two favorite era)
Thanks for your answer, and thanks for this great site ;)
[I'd keep the OD808 for overdrives and get a second more transparent pedal for boost. The Colordrive is just too clean for my taste but the TC is great. Check out the ThroBak Overdrive boost as well :) - Bjorn]
I will go for the TC after christmas, the ThroBak seems to be pretty good but it is too expensive for me ;)
Thanks you for your fast answer!
[Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I’ve recently discovered gilmourish.com. Fascinating ! I really appreciate your efforts here. Its blown me away.
I want to buy pedals to play Gilmour like leads. Two sounds I like include the “Time” solo from the studio album and the sound David got at the stratocastor anniversery show (so much sustain) BUT I’m not a purist. I’m looking for the best I can get for my situation, which you will not consider ideal. Although I have an old vibrolux I almost always play through my Swart 5 watt boutique tube amp (because I live in a small apt with neighbours who complain – I even have an attenuator). I realize the swart isn’t the perfect amp for a Gilmour sound because it doesn’t have the most headroom, but it is a great tube amp and if I don’t play loud its got a good clean sound. I may buy a strat one day, maybe even very soon, but right now I’m playing a 72 LP. I hope this doesn’t render the whole question useless. I do play some Gilmour leads note for note regardless. ( fwiw I also play Gilmour on a flamenco acoustic guitar).
Question 1: Do I buy a Blackout Effecters Musket – which you suggest is best for small setups, or a Rat 2 Keeley Mod which you suggest might be better if one isn’t sure what one’s amp can handle. I also considered the Top Tone DG 1. I’m leaning towards the Musket.
Question 2: Do I get the Boss BD2 Keeley mod, the Fulltone OCD? I understand the coloursound powerboost isn’t ideal for bedroom setups? I’m leaning towards the Boss because you recommend it so often, but there is also a comment saying the OCD is your favourite.
Thanks for sharing all your amazing knowledge. I can’t believe this site.
Steve
[Thanks for your kind words Steve! Glad you enjoy my site :) Big Muffs in general doesn't sound all that Gilmourish on LPs. The combo produce a saturated, often muddy tone. Depends on the pickups and how hot they are. The Musket's focus control will compensate some though. Hard to recommend the best option but for a versatile tone, I think I'd go for a RAT, TC Dark Matter or similar. The BD2 and OCD are two different overdrives. While the BD2 has a transparent tone, designed to boost the amp or other pedals, the OCD has a lot of mid range, typical of what you get on a cranked amp. In essence, I'd use the BD2 for boosting, and the OCD as a dedicated overdrive. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Got my hands yesterday on a Colorsound Power Boost and the first thing I did I did an A/B test with my stock Boss BD2, which I’ve been using for the last 3 years, (yes, even for Floyd tunes).
Currently I’m using a stereo setup, with all the effects chain on the first amp (Hiwatt Maxwatt 200W head on a 4×12 Hiwatt speaker) and with all the effects chain plus the Boss RT20 on the second amp (Vox Valvetronix 60w) for doing that kinda Leslie Gilmour thing. My guitar is a Mexican Stratocaster with Voodoo Blues Set pickups by Dave Allen.
Even on a transistor amp like mine I was blown away by the colorsound, I noticed the compared to the bd2, the sound has more body, it’s wider and the attack of the single notes is perfect, where the bd2 tends to be harsh and a little bit muddy; when the pedals are used for simply boosting the signal with no hints of crunch they are quite similar, yes the colorsound has a fattier tone, but then again the bd2 has no bass and treble controllers, all you get is that “tone” knob which can’t do miracles.
I tried boosting the Fuzz Face (Dunlop JH F1) and played the “Time” solo and after that “Echoes”…again using the Colorsound every single note was perfectly clear and clean in the attack, and instead I had a loss of definition with the BD2.
I noticed one peculiarity: the Colorsound has lots of bass frequencies, I mean when I rolled down the treble knob at 10:00 o’clock and the bass one at 12:00 it had too much of that and on my Hiwatt head I had mid 40% bass 60% and treble 60% so I had to turn the bass down to 11:00 and the treble up to 1:00 and course now it’s more transparent.
The thing that really shocked me, in a good way, is how good the colorsound sounds on the hiwatt, which is a solid state amp, I didn’t expect that, maybe it has something to do with the fact that it has so much room (200w head on a 4×12) ?
I was considering a Laney Cub12R for smaller venues and rehersals and for that I assume the bd2 would be a better choice or am I wrong?
Thank you again, and have a great 2013!
see ya!
Matteo
[HI Matteo! Sorry for my late reply. The CPB is indeed a great pedal! It works nicely on the Cub as well but you may find it hard to maintain the headroom when you use the Cub for gigging. It's a great bedroom/rehearsal amp but it might be a bit too small for clubs etc. You might want to consider a Fender Blues Jr, Peavey Classic 30 etc for a bit more wattage. The CPB goes nicely with these as well. - Bjorn]
Hey,
Just to say I got the EHX Momory Boy and it’s sounding great! I can’t however turn it up enough with the overdrive, because it gets horribly distorted (no effects loop, delay is before the amp’s overdrive). So I was thinking of trying out the Boss BD-2, found a great deal online. Having the delay at the end will get rid of that bad distortion, right? Hoping to give it a test soon. Cheers, and a happy new year!
[Yes, if you run the amp clean and the delay last in the chain, you'll only echo the guitar signal. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
Thanks for everything. I wish I had read your site before I bought my Maxon OD-9. Since I play a low volumes, it doesn’t really shine. Plus, I can’t bond with the mid hump. I’m considering getting another overdrive to compliment my rig. I noticed that you’ve mentioned 3 of the pedals on my short list: BD-2, OCD, and Plexidrive. Which of the three would you recommend in terms of tone and/or versatility. For reference, I’m playing a start with Kinman Woodstocks into a Princeton Reverb Reissue via a Rat.
Charlie
PS You are right on about the Rat (I have the whiteface reissue). AMAZING pedal for getting low volume, high gain tone.
[Depends on what tones you want. The OCD is based on the old TS9 circuit but it has a lot more lower end, gain and presence. The PlexiDrive is perhaps my favourite of the lot. Very dynamic, transaprent and warm. Works great as a booster as well. - Bjorn]
hi, i have a bd2 and was looking for an od808 also. They don’t seem to show up second hand that often here in new zealand. there is currently a fulldrive 2 and a cmatmods signa drive though. both are about the same price. would you recommend these as suitable alternatives, and if so which is the better…
[I think the Signa Drive is perhaps closest to what David might use. A bit more transparent and open sounding that the old Tube Screamer and Fulldrive. I've never really been a fan of the Fulldrive so I must recommend the Signa here... Check out the Super Signa Drive as well. - Bjorn]
The SIgna is a great pedal! I have the Super Signa Drive and it is great really versatile and run at 18v it opens up nicely! You can get some great TS sounds from it and some pretty uncolored tones for Gilmourish tones as well. Though the Super offers you the full EQ to dial out the Mid Hump if it is not the sound you are craving at the moment. Cheers
Would it be better to get the new ratt2 thats availible from proco, or is the byoc mouse a better choice? Or does it not really matter.Ive just heard that the ratt2 reissue is not as good as the original, just hearsay though, nobody reliable has told me their opinion.
thanks – Josh
[The current ProCo model doesn't feature the LM308 chip and the pedal doesn't sound as warm and smooth as the older models. It's not harsh or anything it's just not quite the same. The BYOC Mouse, Jam Pedals Rattler, Retro Sonic Distortion etc might be a better choice. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
a couple of minutes ago, I tried the Mooer Black Secret, and I must say, I’m very impressed. Thank you very much, because without your review of the Eleclady, I might never have known about those pedals. Some time ago, I had a new RAT 2 that I sent back immediately, because it sounded harsh even with a tube amp. After I had read that the Mooer had the LM308 chip, I decided to check it out. I could get some smooth sounds out of the Mooer even when I plugged it into my trusty old Vox Pathfinder 10 wich is a nice amp for cleans and mild overdrives but usually can’t stand heavier distortion pedals. All you need to do is raise the filter knob of the Black Secret and lower the treble knob on the Pathfinder. This is still not as good as the right amp (for instance my PCL Vintage Amp), but it is quite okay. As far as I remember, the Proco was much noisier than the Mooer. With the Black Secret, my Boss BD-2 and a Boss DD-7 (with digital and analog modes), I finally managed to build a basic Gilmour pedal board for bedroom use.
Cheers
Martin
[Glad to hear, Martin! - Bjorn]
Alright, thank you. Ive decided on the hartman lm308 distortion(since for some reason the byoc mouse is unavailible on the website),Thanks again for saving me from a disapointing purchase.
[The Hartman is a good choice :) - Bjorn]
Bjorn, speaking of pedals, I was wondering if you’ve heard whether Dunlop’s statement that their 70th anniversary Hendrix FF, truly is the Dallas Arbiter circuit as exactly as they claim. Wouldn’t be nice to have a great FuzzFace in an MXR sized pedal, with the in, and out on the proper side, and an led? I could do w/o the graphics, but I could live with them if it is all they say!
Thanks, Keith
[I haven't seen the circuit but the demos sounds nice... for what it's worth. Hard to judge a fuzz by a sound clip because you'll always loose all the nuances and harmonics. I really don't know. The JHF1 FF sounds pretty good. Not quite up there with the SunFace but not at all bad. My opinion. - Bjorn]
hi keith!
dunlop will ship new fuzz face minis in february. there will be a hendrix fuzz too (the others are a germanium and a silicon).
here is the link: http://www.jimdunlop.com/product/FFM3-hendrix
So I thought I had made up my mind on the Hartman but then I noticed that the mooer version of the rat says it uses the lm308 chip. Would this be a good alternative?
[I haven't had the chance to try it out yet. I guess it's a fine alternative but I would assume that the Hartman has a bit more tone in it. - Bjorn]
Hey Scubidu, yeah, the Hendrix 70th is already in the store I frequent, and Dunlop claims it’s the exact same circuit as the original Dallas Arbiter that Jimi used, but I’m sure they aren’t using NOS parts, so how close to the original is my big question. However, I would imagine it’s as least as good as the JH-F1, and that would be such an improvement because of the size, and jack placement. I just wonder if anyone’s tried it yet, I haven’t had time. Thanks for the link, I’ll check the others out!
Peace, Love, and GilBjornish,hehe,Keith :)
The proco RAT ’85 whiteface reissue does have the original chip in it. I just ordered one from Sweetwater.
Hey Bjorn, and thanks Scubidu! I looked at the new FF minis, and I want all three, starting with the Germanium, ah heck, no order, just all three. Dunlip swears they got ’66-’68 covered with the Germanium, the early ’70s covered with the Dallas-Arbiter bc-108,( most likely the same circuit as the 3 Hedrix models), but still, $99.00! , and the theres the 70th anniversary, which is worth it as a collectable, and lastly, the mini JH-F1 Style. Like I said, the Arbiter, mini Jimi, and anniversary are mist likely the same bc-108 circuit, but once again, $99.00! I’ve also got GAS for their new talkbox, that has it’s own amp, so it doesn’t go between the amp, and cab, and has a tone shaping knob! As soon as anyone tries these 3″ diameter units, let us know. Lastly, they did the smartest thing ever for the Fuzzface, in on the right, out on the left, LED, and true bypass, the last one being the only one I’m not sure of. Will true bypass change the pedals tone Bjorn? Anyway, looks like NAMM 2013 is going to be a good year for vintage style gear!
Peace, Love, and MORE PEDALS!!! Keith
[Yeah, I know! They are cute! I haven't seen any specs or pix of their guts but I would assume that they have the same circuit as the bigger ones. The red germanium is quite dull sounding if you ask me but the Hendrix sounds pretty nice. True bypass and led may make the fuzz sound a tad brighter but I'm really no expert on the technical stuff. - Bjorn]
Hey what’s better? The jam pedals rattler, byoc mouse, or Hartman distortion, I’m tied between these and it’s kept me from purchasing for three weeks now. Also is the Hartman flanger any better then the current eh electric mistress. Thanks.
[I'd go for the Rattler. The smoothest of these in my opinion. The Hartman flanger is based on the original 76 Mistress, which has a much more liquidy character than the current Delxue. Very different. - Bjorn]
So for gilmour tones, The hartman Flanger is the better choice over the eh deluxe mistress?
[Matter of taste. Obviously, David used the 76 Mistress, so the Hartman would be the closest. Personally, I prefer the Deluxe. It's a bit more focused and blends much better with fuzz and distortions. It's also worth checking out the Mooer ElecLady. - Bjorn]
There’s a ton of comments on here so I hope this hasn’t been covered already.
I have a Deluxe Reverb which is 22W – most would consider this small. This article calls for a larger amp. I’m wondering if the Deluxe will work with this setup. I bought the Big Muff the other day and by chance already had a BD2. Tried it for a while and it sounded pretty good, but I wouldn’t necessarily call it Gilmourish. I also got a lot of feedback, as the article suggested.
I wonder if keeping lower levels but micing it to a PA would do anything.
[Feedback can be the result of many things. When you combine Muffs and overdrives, you need to be careful with the total amount of gain and volume. David doesn't really boost the Muff that much but rather use the booster as an EQ, blending in a bit more tone, which again makes the Muff sound more focused. Try setting the amp as clean as possible with moderate EQ settings. Set the Muff with medio gain and the level at about unity with the amp. Add the BD2 with no or little gain and the level just above unity. That should provide a cleaner tone and less feedback. Adjust the gain on the Muff if needed. Obviously, standing too close to the amp will cause feedback. Also, be sure that you experience feedback caused by high volume and not microphonics. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, I am a little confused as to when you use the BD2 and the OD808. Is the OD808 used on its own or with the Muff like the BD2. Also, when you are using them, do you use both the volume and gain on the pedal or just one of them. Is there a general setting you prefer for them…
Thanks Norman
[It's always a matter of taste. I prefer using the 808 as a dedicated overdrive, since its mid boosted tone doesn't go that well with Muffs. The BD2 works nicely as both an overdrive and booster. Usually I use it for boosting cleans and Muffs, with a fairly clean setting with just a hint of dirt. The actual settings depends on the amp, guitar and how the Muff sound. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, I don’t believe I’ve asked this question before, so here it is: With a good Vintage Fuzz, The Musket as an alternative to all the Muffs available, and a good clean boost, in my case the TC Spark, should I be able to cover most of Davids OD/Fuzz/distortion tones from his earliest Floyd recordings, through Animals? My question is about the gain pedals only, as with The Reeves/Weber combination, Cymbaline, and pretty much all of the modulations and delays, I think I’ve got the rest covered almost verbatim. I was just wondering if I need any additional OD’s, or Distortions to cover this rather long period. I have little interest in anything later than Animals.
Thank you sir, you talk, I listen! Keith
[Depends on how accurate sounding you want to be I guess. The Hendrix fuzz you just bought should be able to handle 1968-1975, although David used a germanium between 68-71, which is very different from a silicon. The Musket, although based on the Sovtek, is fully capable of covering Animals, solo 78 and Wall. Overdrivewise, I think i'd consider a pedal with more gain than the TC... although you can get some nice Time, Cigar etc tones with it. I'd use the TC for boosting and something like a Throbak Overdriveboost, Wampler Plexidrive or similar for overdrive... my two cents... - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn!
So two days ago I ordered my very first set of pedals, two of witch are the jam pedals rattler classic, and the keely bd2. I then realized that i forgot to order a Delay!, so i went to GC and picked up the T-rex tap tone, I love it so far( cant play my guitar without it now, itll be great when the other pedals arrive and i can combine them)but im very new to guitar, I was just wondering if this was a good choice for gilmour tones. Either way i dont regret buying it cause its given me massive inspiration in a way ive never felt before, but still i would like to know if it will work for the kind of tone i want the most, gilmour. Thanks for the help btw on helping me decide on the other pedals i bought. cant wait to try them out.
[The Tap Tone is based on the Replica and Reptile with a typical analog tape echo tone. It's perhaps best suited for David's 70s tones but you should be able to dial in those 80s and 90s digital delay tones as well. I haven't tried it so I can't really comment further. - Bjorn]
Btw , the tone i want the most are davids delicate sounds. If that helps at all with my question.
hey bjorn i absolutely love this site man. Excellent work my friend. Just wondering if you ever had the chance to check out the providence final booster pedal. I think you would truly appreciate the pedal yourself!
[Thanks for your kind words and for the tip! Never tried it... I'll check it out :) - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I’m actulally trying to re-organize my setup and I’m currently working on a Pete Cornish SS-2 alternative for the Division Bell Tones.
I ‘ve recently bought a Laney Cub head, and I’m not convinced by the MXR Distortion + (own a vintage Script logo model), though it was supposed to be an inspiration for Pete cornish building the SS-2.
The BYOC Mighty Mouse doesn’t seem to be the solution neither.
But…. I recently tried a friend’s Vintage Silver screw early Boss DS -1 (from 1979), and …. I think that it stands very very close to the SS-2. Much more than the 2 other pedals mentioned above.
For exemple, I find that the MWR distortion + makes my amp sound as if there was a blanket upon it. Ds-1 is much more open, has much more mids and treble, and sounds to my ears like the SS-2 I can hear on various youtube videos (Gearmansdude for example, wich plays the SS-2 against his Luther drive).
Please Bjorn, could you help for the SS-2 alternative, and give me your opinion about DS-1, or your other experiences (Toptone Lightdrive? Skreddy To fuel ? What is the closest match to real thing.?)
Thanks for sharing your science !!!!! Keep on rockin’.
Regards,
Christophe
[Hi Christophe! I think I answered a mail too but here goes :) As far as I've read, the SS2 was loosely based on the Dist +. Still, they sound very different. I love the Dist + but I always need to use a booster behind it. The TopTone Light Drive is perhaps the closest. You can also get fairly close with a Wampler PlexiDrive or a Fulltone OCD. - Bjorn]
Hey, last question for a while i promise. So I have a fender excelsior, keely bd2 and jam pedals rattler classic, and a all stock squire bullet strat(I know pretty lame). I have the amp pretty clean, and the pedals: guitar/ rattler/bd2/amp. First off is that the right order? And my main question is how do I dial insome Gilmour tones, I know it’s a matter of expirimenting but I have no idea wear to even begin, is there certain knobs that should be set then left static while I only mess with others? I guess I’m just asking for a small tutorial and how to do this, I’m very new to guitar and these are my first pedals. I don’t really even know what the point of the bd2 is. If there is already an article on all this could you point me to it? If not maybe you could help me out. Btw I know there’s a lot of negative reviews on the excelsior but I love it so far, not much adjustments but I like a clean signal from my amp, witch is all this gives. Seems like an ok blank pallet to add pedals too, not great but a good budget amp for a beginner like myself. It’s good to have a real tube amp:)
[Hi Josh, sorry for my late reply. The Excelsior has its obvious limitations so it's a matter of settings the volume for the desired headroom. It's a great sounding amp though and it should be enough for a nice basis for your Gilmour tones. Pedal settings depends very much on the voicing of the amp, your guitar and what tones you're looking for. I usually start with all the knobs at about 2:00 o'clock at tweak my way around that. The BD2 could either be used as a dedicated overdrive or for boosting the Rattler. If you use it as a boost, try setting the volume at about unity, tone at 9-10 o'clock at the gain between off and 9:00 o'clock. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Speaking about overdrives… I had the chance to see a shootout of the DS 1 older 1978 version vs the Pete Cornsih SS 2 and it seemed very very close. Much more than a Rat or even an MXR distortion + (knowing that SS 2 is supposed to be Cornish’s take on the MXR Dist +).
And… xhat do you think about the BYOC orange distortion ?
For those SS 2 tones.
Best regards,
Sebastien
[From what I've read, the SS2 is loosely based on the Dist+ but, as you say, it doesn't sound anything like it. The DS1 has some of the same character. I haven't tried the BYOC so I can't comment on that. - Bjorn]
Now i’ll be a bit off topic: I’ve seemn that you used a BYOC Chorus on one of your what do you want from me video (older version with CS 69). Is the new BYOC kit as staright clonne of the Bos CE 2 ? If yes do you like it as much as your CE- 2 ?
Is the Boss DD -2 an absolut necessity for the Division Bel;ll tones ( along with the DG 20 set)?
Thank you for the most complete website about gilmour
Sebastien
Best regards
[The BYOC Analog Chorus is very similar to the CE2 but it has true bypass, which makes it sound a bit darker. It's also tweaked for a bit more smoother tone and less mid range. The DD2 is just another digital delay. I think it's one of the finest sounding but you could pretty much use any digital delay. - Bjorn]
Got myself a Boss BD-2, really enjoying it so far. Nice dynamics, even if my chinocaster’s pickups barely let that happen (t’was a charm on that fender in the store). Gonna be doing a 50′s wiring mod in it soon though, that should “clean it up”?
Thanks for all this great info Bjorn, has helped a lot! *fades back into the blue…
[Not quite sure what you mean by 50s mod. The pedal or the pickups? Anyway, most mods on the BD2 are cleaning up the pedal for a smoother break up. You'll still have a pretty aggressive overdrive but much more headroom on lower gain settings. It'll also sound a lot warmer and more dynamic. - Bjorn]
Hi again Bjorn,
I ‘ve asked you about the boss ds 1 vs Pete cornish SS 2 a few days ago.
Have your tried the Mooer ultra drive distortion ?
Best regards
Sebastien
[See my reply below :) Haven't tried the Ultra Distortion yet. The Hustle Drive is pretty nice though. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
I’m back again with some more reflection about adding new mates into my collection of overdrives… but at reasonnable price .
2 kind if things I was looking for:
- Chandler / BK tube driver clone : I already own a Boss BD 2 from Robert Keeley, but I’m dying to try a Fulltone OCD (using Low Peak down position switch will scoop the mids, if I’m right).
As i’ve read you Mooer ElecLady review and as you say you’ve tried most of the Mooers being really convinced, what do you think about The Fulltone OCD replacement (Ustle Drive). The Prymaxe vintage clips on youtube are great.
Which one is the best to your ears , not only standing alone, but also when using it with other classical gilmourish pedals (chorus + delay + compressor…. let’s think the typical division bell chain).
- as I said in the previous message, I’m convinced that the Boss Ds 1 stands closer to the Pete Cprnsih SS 2. What would you think about the Mooer Ultra Drive ? Really asking myself what to do…. Buying a stock old Japanese Ds 1 or going for that buidget clone (knowing that I will be using the pedal in a Division Bell typical chain of pedals, …again). How does that thing compare to other SS 2 alternatives like the Skreddy Top Fuel …. Which oine to buy ?)
Thanks for your help again!
Have a nice day .
Sebastien
[Hi Sebastien. Sorry for my late reply. The OCD has a lot of mid range and tonewise it's much closer to the Tube Screamer than the Tube Driver. Depending on your amp, you can set it up for some convincing Tube Driver tones but the Keeley BD2 and the Wampler Plexi Drive are both much closer. The Hustle Drive is grea but again more a TS9 kind of pedal. I haven't tried the Ultra Drive so I can't comment on that. - Bjorn]
Meant the pickups, forgot to clear that up http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Jul/Gibson_50s_wiring_on_a_Stratocaster.aspx It’ll be a while until I get some new pickups, so I might as well explore the current ones a bit.
I have heard about the wonders of BD2 modding, starting here :b, though I think I’ll leave it alone for a while. I did have to open up the Memory Boy to “fix” the volume boost though. Guess they put trim pots on that one after all…
[Oh... Thanks for the link! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I think your spam filter is tough. I can’t see the “reply below” you’ve mentioned in the previous answer. Regards
Sebastien
[Hmmm... I could swear I answered a few of your comments. If not, then I apologise. Let me know if there's something I've missed. - Bjorn]
hi bjorn,just come across your site and love it,can you tell me where i can get either a BYOC large beaver or a RAT please
[Thanks Dave! The Large Beaver can be purchased at Axeandyoushallreceive.com. The RAT should be available in most local guitar stores or online retailers. Check out the excellent Rattler from Jam Pedals as well. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
Sorry, I’ve missed your last reply!
I didn’t know that the Plexidrive was a transparent kind of distortion… is it really similar to a Chandler Tube driver?
Concerning The Pete Cornish SS 2, what is the best choice to get very close, under 200 USD ?
Thank you and sorry for snowbowling you with my questions!
Sebastien
[No worries :) The Tube Driver is very much like an old JTM Marshall, so the PlexiDrive is right up there. The tube in the Tube Driver makes a lot of difference, but you can tweak the PD for similar sounds. It also has a better clean response than the TD, I think. The SS is really quite unique, so it's difficult to find similar pedals. The Skreddy and TopTone are close but check out the OCD and again, the PlexiDrive. - Bjorn]
hi again bjorn,thanks for your advice,i cant wait to place my order but in your expert opinion on getting something close to davids sound(comfortably numb,time etc..)which pedal would be best(rattler or large beaver)? and would i need any others before i order? i own a fender american special strat and fender hot rod deluxe,i also have a boss ds1 and boss me25…………..congratulations on your site bjorn,looks like you make a LOT of guitarists very happy :) including me..i think your great,,thanks for all your work,best regards..dave
[Thanks for your kind words, Dave! Glad you enjoy the site. Check out this feature for some Comfortably Numb tone tips and this one for Time. See the Tone - Pedals feature as well for some general setup tips. Let me know if you need more help :) - Bjorn]
Love this site! Its like a new addiction for me right now haha
I’m looking for a new fuzz/distortion that will be boosted with my OCD overdrive. I do play shows occasionally but primarily have to play at a lower bedrrom level. i have been debating on picking up the Rat 2 or even a Analogman sunface Will the sunface sound good at bedroom levels? Or if i get a Rat 2 does it already have the LM308 chip? Your advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks again, addicted to this amazing site!
Cheers,
Dustin
[Thank you Dustin! I think I'd go for the RAT. It's much more versatile than a fuzz and you can easily tweak it for similar tones. Fuzz pedals also tend to sound thin and harsh on bedroom levels no matter how you set the amp. The OCD works best with the RAT anyway. Check out the Jam Pedals Rattler for a great sounding clone with a few extras. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
I need your wise advice again! Based on this website recomandations, I bought the following pedals: Bass Big Muff and Boss BD2. The next one coming in should be the Olympia Fuzz.
I am looking an alternative for Coulorsound PowerBoost and Tube Driver to complete the distorsion section of pedalboard. I am playing tune from DSotM to Division Bell era. I am using the BD2 as Muff booster actually. I am wondering which of the following pedals you recomand for overdrive tone.
- TC Spark Boost
- TC MojoMojo
- Hot Ice Sweet Distorsion
- Boss BD2
- Other budget pedal (150$)
I will consider original Tube Driver or Coloursound PB if recomandations price are close to these (like ThroBak Overdrive) ’cause amp is Hiwatt Custom 100 and bedroom level is not a consideration for me.
Thanks again,
[The BD2 would do the job of the Colorsound. I haven't tried the Ice Sweet but it sounds very close to the Tube Driver, although a bit more aggressive. The Wampler PlexiDrive is also a great alternative for the Tube Driver. If you need a second transparent boost, since you already use the BD2, then the Spark Booster would be the closest match. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
this might be a repetition of what everyone is asking but do you think the given configuration could enable me of a gilmourish tone considering bedroom level.
Setup that i’m planning is Olympia Fuzz > Dark Matter distortion >Fulltone OCD >Spark Booster.
Current i’m using Vox AC4TV amp and fender Stratocaster with CS69/CS50/SSL5.
Thanks.
[Sounds like a nice and versatile setup. Throw in a delay and perhaps some modulation there as well and you're spot on :) - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn
I bought the fulltone ocd to boost my bif muff pi with the tone wicker. I was wondering if you knew any settings to dial in to help that elusive sound. Cause for the life of me i cant seem to get the gilmour tone down, pretty close but it seems a bit harsh and trebley. I use an egnater but i run the amp on glean with the gain super low so its pristine clean. Thanks for the response for my first question.
[The OCD might not be the best option for boost. It has a lot of mid range and quite a lot of gain, which will colour your tone and add more gain to the Muff. It's a great overdrive and an excellent alternative to the Tube Driver but for boost, I think you'll be better off with a more transparent and cleaner overdrive, like the Boss BD2 or the TC Spark Booster. This will allow a cleaner and warmer tone. See this feature for some amp settings. - Bjorn]
Hey again, I just read the post from Clark, and I’m a bit curious about my inability to get that super sparkely tone that David has in the first intro blues solo in Shine On You Crazy Diamond, and really all over WYWH. I can use the guide to set up like it says he did, but that high end crispness, and sparkle is the only word I can use to describe it, and it’s just not as crystalline. Could it be something in the mixdown, like added compression? I’ve tried changing the settings on the pedals, different picking techniques, but just can’t get it. What say you, you kniw my gear, and my pickups shouldn’t be an issue, as they are spot on period Fender. It’s the one tone I crave most, and yet one of the only one’s I’ve been unable to emulate, which leads me to believe there are some additional things done in mixdown to create the tone What do you use, and what settings, to achieve this wonderful tone?
Thank you, Peace, Keith
[You mean the studio version? I think the solo was recorded straight into the mixing desk with the Strat. If so, they'd use compression and perhaps a tube preamp of some sorts. All of the other guitars on that album were recorded with either a Hiwatt/WEM setup or Fender Twin with a Colorsound Powerboost or just clean. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
I’m kind of torn between a TC Spark Booster and a BD-2 (Analogman mod). Which one would you prefer and what would the main reason be for your choice? In terms of clean boosts, are they both equally capable boosters? What about versatility and acting as dedicated creamy overdrives on their own?
I think I’ve read before that you prefer the Keeley mod of BD-2 for its warmer tone compared to the Analogman mod of BD-2. I’m asking as I will be ordering a Sun Face BC109 from Analogman pretty soon, and I therefore I have a chance to also pop in a BD-2 mod of theirs in the cart. I can find a TC Spark Booster in the local music store, so in terms of availability both are equally accessible.
Many thanks.
[See my reply to your previous comment as well. Both the BD2 and TC has a transparent tone that doesn't colour your signal. The BD2 has a wide range from crystal clean to near fuzz, while the TC is all clean. It does feature a mids boost, which adds a bit more dirt but neither will give you that Tube Screamer, creamy tone. Both are closer to the Colorsound Powervboost and BK Tube Driver. The BD2 will mess up your SunFace but the TC works nicely. So you need to choose I guess. TC - clean and works with fuzz. BD2 - clean and more gain but doesn't work with fuzz. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, love your site!
Have you done a demo of any RAT pedals or clones of the RAT? I’m thinking about the BYOC Mouse which apparently does have an LM308 chip like the old ones. I’d really love to hear some sound clips of what you would do with a similar RAT style pedal if you can find the time in the future for a demo.
Thanks, and keep up the good work with the site!
[Hi Matt! The BYOC Mouse is very nice. I've done a review of the Jam Pedals Rattler, which is probably my favourite RAT clone. Check out the Retro Sonic Distortion as well. The Pete Cornish G2 is also in that RAT territory. See my review of the TopTone DG2 for something similar. - Bjorn]
hey Bjorn
Im currently using the iron bell (thanks to your review) and it works great. I see that it works
great as a stand alone distortion for that sound but i like boosting it to give it that extra umph. Currently im using a plimsoul which is nice but i was wondering if you would think the mosfret 2 or maybe the bb preamp by xotic would be better. Im goin to try the tc spark this weekend. thanks
[The Spark Booster is an all clean booster. The Xotic counterpart would be the RC. The BB is perhaps a bit closer to the old Colorsound Powerboost, with a wider gain range. Check out the AC as well. Personally I don't think the Mosfet works that well for boosting Muffs and other distortions. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn hows life goin?
Well i have completely changed my gear since my last inquiry. I now use a fender twin with 1 15 inch so it stays cleaner when being blasted, my pedals for dirt i currently run are the iron bell and the xotic bb preamp. Do you think if i bought to boost a big muff tone wicker pi again and used the bb preamp to boost it that i could achieve something in the gdnask vein or animals of tone.
[Not quite sure I got the question but why would you need a Tone Wicker when you got the Iron Bell? Should be able to get similar tones. The Tone Wicker may sound a bit more vintage though but I recommend that you check out the BYOC Large Beaver ram's head or, if your budget allows it, the Electronic Orange Pig Hoof for even closer tones. - Bjorn]
also would the fulldrive 2 mosfet work well as a booster, (i forgot to add that i boost the iron bell, it smooths out a little and seems to be sweeter). Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
[Not really. It has a bit too much mid range and gain. I'd rather go with a Boss BD2, TC Electronic Spark Booster or the Xotic RC. - Bjorn]
Dear Bjorn
thanks for being incredibly patient and helping out a fellow guitarist in need. I would like to apologize for wasting your time a little. I recently was getting a little annoyed at the lack of being able to get that gilmour tone. My iron bell and tone wicker were too harsh through my twin and zinky amps. But then genius struck me or you could say i remembered one the most important ingredients to whole equation that i had been forgetting. Volume… plain and simple, i cranked my amps and all that harshness dissipated and now both pedals are giving me gilmour tones. I use the Iron Bell for the P-1 cornish sounds (i dont boost now, with volume that pedal doesnt need a boost.), and i use the tone wicker boosted with the bb preamp for teh G-2 tones. Both of those setups have been gold when i crank it. So thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and next time i’ll be a little more patient and make sure i tackled every avenue before i come here. Again Thank you and take care.
[No worries, Clark :) Happy to help and to hear you found your tone! - Bjorn]
btw i recommend checking out an amp called zinky they are essentially deluxe reverbs clones with a second channel that has preamp gain. The clean channel is pristine, but the the amp does break up fairly quickly because its biased so hot. But its got mojo for days and for 15 watts its gets loud as fuck (sorry for my dirty american mouth). Or the company egnater, the models specifically being the warmaster and renegade for the ability of tube swapping.
[The Egnaters are great. Haven't tried the Zinky... thanks for the tip! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, would you prefer BD-2 or PlexiDrive for an overdrive and boosting RAT/Muff? My amp is Laney LT-5.
[The BD2. The PlexiDrive has a bit too much mid range and compression for boost. - Bjorn]
So I’m considering and overdrive or booster and I’m reading this and you make a clear distinction between the two but you don’t say which is which or give me any way to figure it out myself, I just want a tiny bit of a gain boost like on Shine On You Crazy Diamond, I use a MarkV full stack at home, the Blues Driver sounds alright but idk if that is IT or not, any suggestions would be helpful!
[You want a transparent overdrive with a typical mids scoop. Check out the Boss BD2 (preferably Keeley), ThroBak Overdriveboost, Colorsound Powerboost, Wampler PlexiDrive, BK Tube Driver... - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, once again on choosing an alternative overdrive to have near a BD2 Keeley mod. I ditched the Spark Booster, seems redundant… I’ m considering some very versatile like the Mojohand Rook or mantra from Blackouteffectors, but I’m also testing a modded TS9 with true bypass switch that sounds good and is dead silent. The doubt is about the tone control that seems it works only at the very end of the turn where the pedal begin to hiss with the finally found highs! Any suggestions are welcome because the BD2 is fantastic but very mid scooped ,and sometimes I’d like to have more versatility!
Regards,
Luca
[The TS9 is at the very other side of the tone spectrum. Can't really go wrong with that but if you want something in-between, then the Rook or Wampler PlexiDrive might be a good way to go. Both has a bit more mid range than the BD and gets nice and compressed when you turn up the gain and volume. - Bjorn]