Every week I’ll present a little tip that’ll hopefully help improve your tone and technique. Please feel to comment and share your experience on the topic.
Buffers VS true bypass
Setting up a pedal board require that you pay some attention to how and why you’re combining certain pedals. Which pedal goes where and why do some pedals sound different at one place in the chain compared to another. Tone isn’t just about tracking down the ultimate distortion but also knowing how to use it both alone and with other pedals. The design and construction of one pedal can seriously alter the tone of another and having some basic knowledge of how this all works will help you improve your overall tone and each pedal’s performance.
True bypass means that the signal from your guitar travels on a separate line inside the pedal when the effect is off. The idea is to avoid any colouring from the pedal’s cirquit but but with many true bypass pedals on your board you’ll get many more feet with cable, which will drain signal and again cut treble. As a result one increases the treble on the amp and the tone get’s too bright.
Buffered pedals lets the signal travel straight through the effect and small buffers or preamps inside the pedal makes sure that the signal is balanced and strong enough to travel through long instrument cables. However, cheaper pedals feature low quality buffers that often are tweaked to overcompensate for any signal loss. This often results in a noticeably brighter tone that especially makes vintage fuzz and overdrive pedals sound harsh and thin.
It’s not easy to explain the differences or the pros and cons but here’s how I see it. If your board consists of classics like a Cry Baby, Fuzz Face, Colorsound and a Big Muff you will experience a slight alteration in your tone when you introduce say a Boss DD-3 delay, which is buffered. Some people don’t mind while others think that it completely messes up the signal. On the other hand, if your board includes a lot of Boss, Ibanez, Digitech etc pedals you should be aware that you’re using all buffered pedals and that buying the fuzz you always wanted might turn out to be a huge disappointment because fuzz units simply can’t stand buffered pedals.
My best advice is to use mostly true bypass pedals and have one or two buffered in the chain, – ideally a compressor first in line that buffers your signal through the board and perhaps a delay at the end buffering the signal to the amp. If you’re uncertain of how this affects your rig then unhook everything, listen to the signal from your guitar to the amp and add one pedal at the time. Stop when the signal is dramatically altered and see how the pedal causing the problem is affecting the other pedals. Be sure to use the same cable brand and lenght to/from each side of the pedal board or you’ll might have different colouring from the cables!
Hi Bjorn,
Interesting point about the cable brand and lengths: do you really mean to have same length of cables in and out? Does it really make a difference?
Last week I ordered some 1/4″ Jack to Jack adaptors by Rotosound. I also ordered a few “Monorail’ patch cables by Evidence Audio. Any experience with these items?
I noticed you use George L’s on your boards.
[I used Monorails for some time but I'm constantly rearranging the boards and I'm too lazy to order new cables. I have tons of George L's lying around so I'm using these now :)
What I meant by same cable brand and lenght was that when you're testing the pedals you need the same cable to and from the pedal or else one of the cables will color the tone. If you use a high quality cable to the pedal and a cheap 9m worn out cable from the pedal to the amp then you won't be able to get a an honest tone from the pedal and the test will be useless. In a normal setup one would normally use the lenght that's required and perhaps even different cables however a good rule is to use high quality cables all around and as short as possible for less drain. - Bjorn]
First of all, I really like your ‘tip of the week’ series. The ‘buffer vs true bypass’ debate tends to be an issue that has been discussed a lot on many internet fora. However, using the right patch cables is something that is often overlooked. So, thumbs up for addressing this point. I too use those George L cables. Furthermore, when I use pedals from one type of brand – MXR, Ibanez, EH, Boss – instead of using pedals from several brands together, I tend to get better tones.
[The trouble with pedals is that none are identical in terms of impendance etc. That causes a lot of problems but the trick is to consider the whole and not just the last pedal you spent your money on. That as well as good quality cables will help a lot. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn!!!! nice tip of the week…so if you´r puting a vintage fuzz after a vox wha that means you´r going to have some tone alterations?? that´s the way hendrix and gilmour use to do it without a tru bypass wah and i reckon the sounded fine. in those day all pedals where buffered hence the noise on live situations!!!
[The fuzz needs to be first. Gilmour usually had the fuzz first but Hendrix didn't seem to care much and is seen having the fuzz both before and after the wah. It's not wrong though but you get a different tone from both pedals. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
In my experience in electronics/electrical engineering, I have found the easiest way to compensate for the tone lost by a long/poor quality cable is by putting a 0.82uf capacitor between my tone knob and my output jack. This gets rid of the treble loss caused by poor quality leads, and doesn’t cut low end. It also provides some protection against poorly wired amplifiers. (See what happened to Keith Relf of the Yardbirds) Also, over in Australia, such components cost $1.75 for a pack of 2, and my soldering skills are good enough to do the procedure with the desired amount of neatness.
Chris
[Thanks for the tip :) - Bjorn]
Bjorn is right on, as usual. I have found through exhaustive experimenting, all true bypass pedals with two buffered pedals seems to be the magic recipe, at least for my setup. I have also noticed that I cannot do the reverse wah seagulls effect if there is a buffer in front of the wah. If I move the wah in front of the buffered signal then voila, seagull effect. This is at least true for my setup.
[That's right. The wah needs to be infront of any buffered pedal. The only pedal you want infront of the wah is a vintage style fuzz. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
my board is : Boss TU2-Demeter Compulator-Big Muff-Providence Sov2-Boss ge7-providence phaser-Providence Dly80-A/B Buffered box with Boss dd7 to the 2nd channel of my amp (WEM Dominator)
I also have two buffers in small enclosures built from a technician for a better signal.
Do you think my chain is rigth ? and where fit the 2 buffers?
Thx Great Bjorn
[You'll be the judge of that. Hard to tell when I haven't heard your rig. I'd reconsider the GE7 though if you feel your tones are a bit bright. It has some of the worst sounding buffers among the Boss pedals and I ditched mine after realizing that I used it to compensate for the poor tone it created... a strange paradox. - Bjorn]
How can you tell between a buffered and a bypassed pedal?
[Usually true bypass pedals have a small on/off silver knob that produce a click when stomped on. Buffered usually have a larger switch like the Boss pedals. There's variations on both. Some pedals also have hardwire bypass, which is similar to true bypass but the signal goes through the cirquit and not bypassed. These switches looks like a true bypass switch but are often easier to stomp without the click. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, great articles these tips of the week!
Have you heard about the Jam Pedals True Bypass Multibox? I’m considering to get one though I cannot try it first since they are made and sold in Greece (and I live in Barcelona).
As explained in their web: “True Bypass Switcher takes non-true-bypass effects out of your signal chain and when they are needed they can be reinserted with the switch, while remaining constantly on. It is designed to have the purest, cleanest signal path possible with no signal degradation at all”.
Too nice to be true? ; ) Any help or hint will be appreciated!
An other question: I’ve got into my chain a dunlop wah from hell which causes radiointerferences since we moved to an other rehearsal building place where unfortunately there’s a mobile phone antenna… and I’ve tried everything but radio interferences go on (if I power the wah with a 9v battery it improves quitely but it’s expensive, I’d rather use the adaptor), so I’ve been considering (desperately, I know) to get that Jam pedal Total By pass box to isolate the wah… Any thought about it?
Thanks again for your great help and info!
[The True Bypass Switcher is basically just a true bypass looper pedal that, as the text says, loops any pedal in/out of your chain. It's a handy tool for buffered and noisy pedals and it can also be used for engaging two or more pedals at once like a fuzz and delay for the funky part on Echoes.
Sounds strange that the wah alone should pick up such interference. Have you checked the cables to/from the pedal? The looper will probably solve the problem but keep in mind that even a true bypass looper will mean more pedals and cables on your board, which again will drain your signal so it's always a balance and a questions of what's more important. - Bjorn]
hi i;m trying to get the best ie gilmour out of my board i have a mxr dyna comp,boss dd3,boss tu2,ernie ball vp jr,micro pog,line 6 dl4,line 6 mm4,big muff,boss,rv5,and getting a vox wah. what is the best way to line them and can give a way to set the tones to be more like gilmours thanks.
[Try this: wah > dynacomp > muff > mm4 > pog > dd3 > dl4 > rv5 > volume. The tuner can either be placed first in the chain or via the tuner output on the volume pedal. Personally I'd ditch the RV5 and perhaps also the DD3, since you already have the DL4. See this feature for more on the use of reverb. I'd also get a overdrive for both dedicated overdrive tones and for boosting the cleans and the Muff. Check out the Boss BD2 and Fulltone OCD. - Bjorn]
I’ve recently added a BYOC true bypass A/B looper to my board to switch between my 2 overdrive pedals, a 3 knob tube driver and a dean markley overlord. the tube driver was fine, but the bypass on the overlord was pretty poor (odd since it’s a butler design).
as a result my board is mostly true bypass, with 4 buffered pedals – boss tuner and chorus, TC Electronic delay and a Morley wah, and it all sounds pretty good. I will add that quality patch cables are a must, and often overlooked. I’ve never tried the George L’s, but any decent quality cable and jacks are worth the investment as they do make a difference.
[They sure do. It's easy to forget that although each cable is only a few cm it does matter. - Bjorn]
Good tips, as always! In my personal experience, I run my pedals in a bypass strip so that each pedal is completely out of the signal path when not in use… Then I have a single buffered pedal at the end of the chain to drive the signal to all the amps. Seems to work nicely that way :D
[That would be the best way to maintain the signal on a pedal board I guess. I'm too lazy to try that my self but looping pedals (for different reasons) will in most cases improve the tone. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
probabily I ll ditch my Boss GE7.
About Demeter Compulator I see in the Gilmour settings is compress 1 and volume 3- is rigth? Is it the raccomanded setting? Does it need to adjust the secret trim pot or it s ok at factory setting?
thx steve
[Compressors are a bit tricky because how much compression you need depends entirely on almost all the components in your rig and how they interact with the compressor. David's settings is a good guide but I had to adjust mine slightly with a bit more volume. I used the default trim settings but trust your ears and try different settings for your rig. - Bjorn]
Yesterday i finally have the time to try all my pedals to See which one is sucking out tone. this is the result:
Boss…didn´t notice any change of tone (i used the radial bigshot looper)
cheap Danelectro mini vibe …no tone change at all!!!
dunlop jimi hendrix fuzz JH2…a little tone change but bearable
vox wah v847 (mid 90s) BAD stuff here it drooped bass and highs..the good news is with a cheap mod it can be a true bypass
line 6 true bypass
electro harmonix true bypass
I trick to know if your pedal is true bypass is to disconnect the power and if the signal passes when is no power (the wah and the dunlop do that i dunno why been not true bypass ) then your pedal is true bypass.
[Wah pedals definitely cuts the treble and some bass. - Bjorn]
Hi guys,
I’m also finding buffers do make a big difference, where and when they are used. Also the quality of a buffer is hugely different, in say a Boss GE-7, as compared to the switchable High quality buffer in my RJM Midi Effect Gizmo. I’ve noticed a lot of people, including Bjorn are using either a Boss DD2, or a Boss GE-7 as the final pedal/ buffer, before going to the amp. I would imagine the old 80′s Boss DD-2, would have a relatively good, warm sounding buffer. On the other hand a new un-modified Boss GE-7, may use a low quality buffer. I had one modified by Analogman which dramitically reduced the hiss/ noise, but I suspect he didn’t upgrade the buffer. If you want to go the next step up, you can maybe check what type of Dual Op Amp (buffer)is used, and upgrade to a 4558 chip. Or just solder in a socket, which actually also helps reduce potential heat damage, and try half a dozen different Dual Op amps from your local Electronics shop. There are many alternatives you can try, and parts are relatively cheap to buy.
Its weird that I’m currently finding a buffer works o.k. after my BK Tube Driver, but not after my Vintagefx Colordrive. I’m suspecting problems with my Tubedriver, so don’t quote me on that!
Regards,
Paul
[There's definitely a huge difference between the old Japanese Boss pedals and the new. I can add a DD2 or CE2 any time without noticing any changes in the tone or noise levels but a GE7 or almost any other new Boss pedal only makes it worse. - Bjorn]
@Christopher,
do you really mean a 0.82uf cap or rather 0.082uf..?
OH NO.. my board is full of Boss pedals right now (tuner, compression, distortion, blues driver, chorus, delay).. but my dream pedal is a Fuzz Face.. am I going to have a tough time with this combination? Any suggestions short of replacing the Boss pedals? Should I consider replacing the Boss pedals?
[It's not just the pedals that might affect the Face Face. What amp and pickups do you have? Boss pedals will make a fuzz sound brighter and thinner but instead of ditching them you can place the fuzz in a loop or separate chain. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn thx for the response.
At the moment my Strat is sporting the factory pickups (I do have my eye on a set of CS69s though). I do own the Gilmour EMG set but haven’t used them in a month or so.
I’m running a Fender Showman 200W amp.. I just bought it used and I don’t know much about it yet.. but it DOES have the effects loop.
– Curtis
[The Showman should be more than capable of handling a fuzz. It's a great classic amp. Try setting it up as clean as possible, about this: bass 50%, treble 50-60%, mids 40% and set the master at about 1/3 of the channel volume. In regards to using a loop I was talking about a looper pedal that would place the fuzz outside the chain of Boss pedals. The idea is that you leave the fuzz on at all times and use the looper pedal to engage it. I wouldn't place a fuzz in the loop channel on the amp. - Bjorn]
Hey bjorn, ive been following your great resource for a while now and i must tell you
its one of the best efforts out there, thanks for your massive input and keep up the good work :)
would you please suggest the right order for my signal chain?
>fender strat >
Dunlop wha>mxr phase90>big muff>rat2>ocd>lpb-1>small clone>mxr carbon copy
> fender blues jr.
I place the phase early for a more subtle effect and i put the compression after the drives to have some controll over the distortion thus its not in the head of the chain.
Thanks in advance, Igal.
[Thank you Igal! I don't see a compressor in the chain but if you have one I'd place it after the wah and in front of the gain effects. This way it operates more naturally. Use the guitar volume knob to adjust the gain from the gain pedals. See this feature for more on how to use compressors. Placing the phaser before the gain effects adds a nice subtle tone, which is great for a slight modulation on solos etc. Try this setup: wah wah > compressor > phase90 > Muff > RAT > OCD > LPB > small clone > carbon copy. Use either the Muff or RAT. Never combine these. You can use both the OCD and LPB to boost the Muff or RAT. You can also use the LPB to boost the OCD. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Thanks bjorn, i own an mxr dynacomp which i place after the gain based pedals because otherwise i have no controll over the distorted signal which i find helpfull in a bedroom setup (aka getting my muff boosted to a screaming mode and then adjusting the volume via the compressor without lowering the gain on the guitar volume knob=screaming distortion on low volume) thought placing it right after the wah gives me a great sustain/output/signal. Would u recommend getting another compressor maybe? Thanks for the advice :)
[Hard to tell without having tried your rig but if placing the compressor after the gain pedals works for you then go for it :) I still recommend though, that you place it in front of the gains and try to find the right balance between the distortion and overdrive. You should be able to set both pedals for the right amount of gain without losing tone or getting too much noise. Check out this feature for some tips on setting the proper volume on your pedals. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, this is my first time reading your TotW feature, and I’m looking forward to combing through the archives.
I recently purchased the Boss GE7 after reading about its usefulness as an equalizer and boost. After reading what you have to say about its poor buffers, I’m reconsidering. I don’t have a boatload of cash, so I’m wondering if you have any input on making the GE7 work or finding a not-too-costly EQ and/or boost replacement.
I’ve got an Epiphone Les Paul standard (with the pickups it came with) running into a Korg Pitchblack > Boss GE7 > Small Clone > Boss DD7. (It’s not much, I know – just getting started with stompboxes!) I’m also strongly considering acquiring an OCD (between tuner and EQ) and an EB Jr. volume pedal (between Small Clone and DD7). My amp is a Yamaha DG60-112.
Thanks, and feel free to point out any obviously dumb things that I’m doing :)
[Well, first you need to consider why you need an EQ. An EQ pedal isn't like a distortion or phaser but rather a tool to shape and tweak your tone if you need that little extra. Perhaps one of your pedals lack some bass or perhaps you need to lower the mids a little when you engage the chorus? EQs should not be something you use all the time. EQs work fairly well as a booster but it's much more efficient to use a transparent overdrive like the Boss BD2, ThroBak Overdrive Boost, TRex Booster etc. These will provide anything from clean volume boost to near fuzz and they also enhance the tone from your amp, especially tube amps. The amp should be the basis for all your tones so I recommend that you make sure the amp is set first and then you add the pedals. A good sounding amp shouldn't require any additional EQ unless you need to fine tweak some of the pedals. In regards to buffers, the BossGE7 is perhaps the noisiest of the Boss pedals and the buffers doesn't go well with other true bypass pedals. Hope this made sense :) - Bjorn]
For Toni & Bjorn,
Wah pedals commonly pickup radio stations, it has a lot of wires that are acting like antenna in the pedal, plus your guitar cable. My pedal does this also, and there is a lot of info on it on the net. I think you have to change one of the resistors to get rid of the radio.
This is from Dunlop CryBaby FAQ:
Let me know if that works, I’m trying to fix it myself here in the Puget Sound area, same problem as the Great Lakes, lots of water nearby and Canadians.
Hey Bjorn, could you please suggest the optimal chain for such a rig:
fender strat> dunlop wha>mxr dynacomp>dunlop octavio>ehx big muff>fulltone ocd>rat2>vintage rat>ehx lpb1>ehx small clone> mxr carbon copy> mxr phase 90…
Both rats are there because i still cant choose one over the other. Thank you.
[I'd try this: fender strat > octavio > dunlop wha >mxr dynacomp > ehx big muff > rat2 > vintage rat > OCD > hex lpb1 > ehx small clone > phase 90 > mxr carbon copy. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Thanks alot bjorn, ive also recently purchased tc electrnonic’s polytune, does it matter where in the chain will i place it? :)
[The best way is to use a splitter first in the chain. If you don't care to do that, then place it last in the chain to avoid it interfering with the other pedals. - Bjorn]
hey bjorn, thank you for the advice man.
would it be wise to use a (cheap) boss mt-2 as a buffer for my rig?
and if yes.. where would it be wisest to place it… ?
strat > octavio > wah > ehx big muff > rat2 > vintage rat > ocd > mxr dynacomp > lpb1 > polytune > small clone > mxr phase 90 > mxr carbon copy > blues junior.
[First of all I think you'd be better off with the compressor after the wah and the tuner either first or last in the chain - preferably on a split. You don't need a buffer and if you won't be using the MT2 that much I'd rather get a Boss delay that would serve some purpose as well as buffering. - Bjorn]
ill get a split for the tuner later this week, but for now at the head of the chain it gives me a weird tone, and at the end it sometimes forces me to turn off a stompox or two because it can’t get the note straight :) so its only temporary there.
the dynacomp well… i like it better this way after trying both options.
would you be kind enough to explain why this kind of setup doesn’t require buffering?
and yet if id like to toy with this noisy little cheap box (mt-2) where would it be best placed?
[A buffer isn't mandatory but it helps to maintain the signal. Long cables and several pedals means that the signal from the guitar will deteriorate so having at least one buffer in the chain solves much of the problem. However, it's also down to taste. Some people like that slight treble roll off and darker tone. In your case, having only true and hardwire bypass pedals, I think you'd be better off with one buffer but that's only a suggestion. I'd place the MT2 after the Rats and in front of the OCD. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn. Great article.
I was wondering what you think about the buffer in a Digitech Whammy? I’m debating whether to mod it to be true bypass or not. Mine is a version 4 (newest one).
Also, in terms of guitar signal, what order would I put a whammy, Wah, and compressor. I don’t know if there are any hard and fast rules on these three. I always hear that each should be first after the guitar.
[I don't have any experience with the latest Whammy but I guess the buffers are quite OK. There are no rules but the "normal" way of arranging the pedals is: fuzz > wah > wahmmy > compressor > high gain > low gain > modulations > volume pedal > delay > amp. - Bjorn]
I’m currently building a new board and I’m curious, is there a benefit to running all pedals through a true bypass looper, AND having a good buffer at the beginning of the chain?
[Why would you need a TB looper for the whole setup? - Bjorn]
Hey Ryan,
A true Bypass looper can offer a few benefits. The first being having all your pedals switches in line instead of all mixed up and tight, which gets clumsy. Even better is finding a TB Looper that hays the ability to offer multiple effects control with one switch. This saves a great deal of tap dancing.
The other is that every pedal your rig is running through is starving your amp for signal. A TB Looper keeps pedals completely out of line when not in use, giving better over all tone and less noise. Another added control on many TB Loopers is a Bypass all switch which comes in handy in getting silence with one push of a button.
As for a buffer…buffers all depend on your rig and its needs but realize that many classic Fuzzes and Muffs DO NOT like buffers in line before them and having a buffer before them also cancels your guitar PUs ability to alter the tone of the Fuzz or Muff via Master Guitar Volume. Therefore if you are using similar pedals and still wish to use a buffer, the buffer needs to come post Fuzz/Muff.
Alas price point is a big deciding factor, but putting together a rig is never a cheap process ;P
Good luck, Hope that this helped you with your questions.
Cheers
Stephen
[Thanks for the input Stephen. I agree completely. A good rule is to use as few pedals as possible, good quality cables and proper powering. - Bjorn]
Bjorn,
I have 10 pedals. I recently bought a voodoo lab pedal switcher.
I had hooked up the pedals in the following sequence. TU2, wah, vibe,
compressor, ts9, boss mt2, EH big Muff, phase 90, dd7, fender reverb.
Didn’t sound too bad but thought I would try a pedal switcher. Got the VL 4 switcher.
I thoughts could buffer my fuzz and distortion a few pedals …better than nothing but
I am not sure this will work. Do I have to isolate all the pedals to get the benefit or can I do a
partial isolation and have the other pedals run outside the switcher? Suggestions?
Thanks
[I have very little experience with this actually. First off, I'd be careful placing the fuzz anywhere near a buffer as it alters the tone. Second, and personally, I'd place the TS9 after the Muff if you're using these together. But again, I don't have much experience with setting up for a switcher so I'd have to do some research to be able to comment. Anyone else care to help? - Bjorn]
Where should I put the buffer pedal in my setup? Any recommendations on improved pedal order. Also can you recommend some good buffer pedals that have true bypass switching for signal testing?
Strat or LP > Vox wah(foxrox & TB mod) > MXR dyna comp > TS808 clone > JH-F1 Fuzz Face > Big Muff w Wicker > EHX Stereo Memory Man > Amp
[The Fuzz should go first. It doesn't like to be placed after wahs... Also, I'd place the 808 after the Muff, unless you really like how it blends with the Muff having it before. Try this: fuzz > wah > dyna > Muff > 808 > mem man > amp. There are lots of buffers out there. The Carl Martin Buff Deluxe, Wampler Clean Buffer, Mach Clean Booster... All of these are true bypass, so I'd place it next to first in the line, after the fuzz. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn…you would place a Buffer before a Fuzz? I find that that kills the fuzz tone quite a bit and also the ability to adjust the fuzz via the vol nob on the guitar….any thoughts?
[I'd place it after a vintage style fuzz circuit. There shouldn't be anything before these pedals. As you say, it changes the character. I meant that in my last comment but forgot about the fuzz in the chain. Thanks! - Bjorn]
I have a new snow white fuzz and really love the great tone and response. Having a little trouble when I switch it out and I loose a bunch of the volume from the guitar signal? I’m using a MXR boost/line driver right after the fuzz and then into a Wet reverb. Why the volume loss and what can I do to fix this? Thanks, and you make such great sounding pedals Bjorn. I’m in the same town as Donner if anything need be done he can surely help.
[Not quite sure I understand what you mean... are you loosing volume when you switch the fuzz off? - Bjorn]
Yes quite a lot of volume loss.
[If this happens when you switch it off I would imagine that you've set the volume on the fuzz too high. Try matching the stright volume from your guitar to the amp (no pedals in the chain) with the volume you get with all pedals plugged in but switched off. If this is the same, then you need to adjust the volume of the pedals when these are switched on. If there's a volume drop when all pedals are switched off, compared to a straight signal, then I suspect that there's something wrong with either one of the pedals or cables. - Bjorn]
Hi great website, i need help i have a boss hm-2, vox v847 wah, line 6 mm4, DD20, MXR carbon copy, Boss bd-2 and a Trex mudhoney. i was wondering how i should set this up for a Gilmour sound? and also what other effects i should have to get a great Gilmour sound with this setup?
[I'd arrange the pedals liek this: guitar > vox > hm2 > bd2 > mudhoney > mm4 > dd20 > carbon > amp. How you should set the pedals depends on what amp and guitar you have, whether you play at home or with a band and what Gilmour tones you want. - Bjorn]
is there any important pedals i should add to my collection for good gilmour sound? i prefer his sound from pulse, time, momentary lapse of reason, animals and division bell those are the particular sounds i am after when i play at home or with my band
[Depends on what amp and guitar you have. Check out the gear guides for the albums you're referring to and see what David's been using. For a start, I'd say that a basic setup should feature an distortion, overdrive, delay and perhaps a modulation. Let me know if you need more help for setting up specific tones. - Bjorn]
Hi there (this is an excellent resource by the way)
I’m considering buying something to boost my solos during live gigs and was considering a way huge angry troll or boss ge 7. My preference woulda have been the way Hugh but I have read the boss option may be better – what would you go for? I play through a mid 90 s Marshall 8240 valvestate with a Morley bad horse 2. So in essence equaliser or overdrive? Cheers
[I prefer overdrives. You can easily get lost with an EQ but an overdrive allows you to both tweak the frequencies - given that it has treble and bass controls - and you can add some of its character to the overall tone. A booster should also be transparent so that it doesn't colour the tone too much. I haven't tried the Angry Troll but the Pork Loin should do also work nicely. Check out the ThroNak Overdrive boost and TC Electronics Spark Booster as well. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, i just bought a gold tolex celestion greenback speaker fender blues junior with the pedals i have described above, im thinking of buying a cs-2 as well to add to the rig is there any other pedals i need for a Gilmourish setup? also im worried about fuzz and big muff pedals in a blues junior how will they sound,etc? how should i have the amp setup? im looking for a more versatile setup for most of Gilmour’s sounds especially the 80′s-mid 90′s sounds. Thank you.
[The Jr handles Muffs pretty well. Try getting one with a boosted mid range like the Musket or Colossus. Fuzz pedals can be harder to get to work. They usually sound too thin on Fenders. Check out amp setting in this feature. - Bjorn]
Also sorry should have asked this in the previous post, im not enjoying my boss bd-2 very much and want to get rid of it would the trex mudhoney work well to boost my future big muff? Thank you.
[I haven't tried the Mudhoney so I can't really tell. The BD2 should work nicely on the Jr but you need to set the amp up for a warm tone and keep the tone on the BD2 fairly low. Check out the Fulltone OCD or the Wampler Plexi Drive if you want something warmer and that's still able to boost a Muff. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn – my pedalboard chain is this –
Boss TU 2 tuner – Death By Audio Interstellar Overdriver Deluxe – Xotic EP Boost – Montgomery Appliances Flanger MK IV – MXR Phase 90 – Boss DD-6 Delay – Diamond Memory Lane II
I recently tried to replace Boss Tuner with the TC Electronic Polytune Mini to save space (the boss doesn’t quite fit on my board), and I also thought that true bypass would be advantageous, as well as being able to tune polyphonically which I like. Also, I had read that the Boss Tuner buffer isn’t the best.
However, without the buffer of the TU 2, the DBA Interstellar Overdriver lost all of its highs. I was surprised at how crucial the TU 2 was.
What do you advise I do? I would much prefer to use the Polytune if possible, but I can’t really buy a separate buffer as I have run out of power inputs on my Pedal Power 2, and have no space on my board!
I wondered if putting the MXR Phase 90 before the DBA IOD would buffer the signal enough to make the overdrive work as normal again?
Any advice or comments that you have would be much appreciated!
Thanks
[As far as I know, the Phase 90 doesn't have buffer so it wouldn't make a difference. Some pedals are very sensitive to which pedals you place next to them and gain pedals especially have a tendency to sound eiether brighter or darker when you place them next to a buffer. Have you tried placing the DBA alone in the chain with just the guitar and amp and compared that with the tone you get without the Boss buffer? Perhaps the difference isn't that big since the buffer will make it brighter anyway. What kind of cables are you using and how long are they? The DD6 should be able to buffer the signal from the pedal board and to the amp so it more a matter of buffering the signal from your guitar and the cable to the pedal board. If nothing works, then you might need to upgrade with a separate buffer or a Boss pedal firt in the chain (could be a compressor) and add a second power sypply. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, thanks for your reply. With the DBA alone in the chain it (strangely) still suffers from a lot of high end loss, so it must just be a pedal that benefits from a buffered input. With the TU 2 and the DBA as the only pedals in the chain it immediately sounds good again and there is no high end loss. I use 15 ft cables to connect to the guitar to the board and the board to the amp, so maybe that plays a part in why the buffer is v important and makes such a difference.
In terms of buffering the input to the DBA, would the compressor need to be Boss, or could I use, for eg, a Keeley compressor that’s always on, with a the level turned up a bit higher than unity gain?
Thanks for your help
[I would say that the cable is the source of your problems. Some pedals are very sensitive to long cables and suffer a great deal of high end roll off due to the long signal chain. That's why you experience a better tone when the buffer is engaged. A compressor alone won't help. It's the buffer that matters and I don't think the Keeley is buffered. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, when you play a really large stage at say an outdoor gig, It’s hard to use less than15′ from guitar to board, and board to amp. I think you said the cables should be the same length, and it really sucks to be tied to within 10 feet of your amp. Is there a way of using the 15-18 foot cables, and compensate for the signal loss?
Thanks Obi-Wan, Padawan EbbRamone
[No, what I meant was that when you set up the rig and test for possible errors, you should be using the same cable model and length to and from the pedalboard. Even better - the same model but considerably shorter cable from the pedal board to the amp to eliminate as much drainage as possible. If the cables are very different it they will play a factor in your tone and it will be hard to detect any inconsistencies. On a stage you obviously need to use different lengths but keep them as short as possible. - Bjorn]
@Keith, you are best off to use TRS cables when running long stretches of cable but to do so you need a signal converter at both ends. I use Hum Eliminator II’s as they serve as a patch bay, a hum canceler and a un balanced to balanced signal converter. When using TRS cables any RFI signals that can enter along the length of the cable will be canceled out at the other end of the cable. Companies like Lava Cable have a wide selection of makes. Mogami is a well known and often used manufacturer of Balanced cables but there are many quality makers out there.
Cheers
Man, you guys take such good care of this old Rock ‘n’ Roller, who until recently knew little more than, insert cable into ES335, insert opposite end into Marshall JCM Slash/ Jubilee, crank all knobs and play!
Thanks all, and especially Stephen Ford, and Obi-Wan Riis. I’ll say it again, Hep me, Hep me, I been Gilmourized! :o)
[LOL! - Bjorn]
Often an ES-335 and an insert cable to a vintage amp is just what we all need! I am a a long time player of ES’s and will always go back:)
Glad to be of service:)
Cheers to all
[Well I've never been much of an ES guy but I have the same affection for Teles I guess. They're really not my first choice but nothing beats the tone when you just plug it straight into an amp and jam all night :) Goes for the same I guess. Sometimes it's just great to free your self from all the pedals and rock :) Cheers! - Bjorn]
If you use a compressor (which is true bypass) at the beginning of your effects chain to double as a buffer, is it actually as effective as using a true dedicated buffer? Are there impedance issues or other issues with a compressor compared to a real buffer? I have read that just having a compressor and turning up the level slightly is not actually serving the same purpose as a buffer, instead simply amplifying a weak signal. Is this true? Or is a compressor, that’s true bypass, just as effective as a buffer as a dedicated buffer? Thanks
[Well, no. A true bypass circuit is not a buffer. A compressor is basically a gain pedal so by increasing the volume you'll only amplifying the initial signal. However, a buffered compressor, like the Boss CS series, would act just like a dedicated buffer also when the pedal is off. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn, once again thanks for your work, i always find myself coming back here for information even though ive read every artice on gilmourish.com at least twice if not more )
ive been trying to avoid this question for some time now but ive reached a point where i must seek for help :)
i have my strat for about two years now and by this time ive collected me a bunch of stompboxes… maybe even abit too much of these thus the confusion.
i wouldn’t mind droping some of these, nor would i mind using them in any ways possible for any right or interesting purpose in my signal chain to get THE TONE :)
but i just can’t seem to find the right order/combination nor any fine tuning. “lol”.
it might be time to go & get me a buffer, or maybe just to drop a few from the pedalboard, or maybe its in the order of things because the distortions seem to interact kind of strange since ive introduced a nady td-1 unit to the singal chain and it sure seem to matter where i plug it, i still can’t figure this thing out in particular though people online are praising it for many reasons and tones.
ive would like to hear your opinion as to what order and cause should/could i use my stompoxes, and get the best out of them by assembeling the best rig possible.
08fender ustandart > o.c.d (as a clean boost, because it seems to get muddy any later down the chain and in general as an overdrive oddly enough) > dunlop wah > dunlop octavio > big muff pi (stock unusable edition) > mxr dynacomp (very muddy..) > nady TD-1 (which by intself can sound very nice for warm bluesy o.d or something that reminds a tube driver but it loses all touch when in chain) > us RAT2lm308 (just makes me thin no crunch at all) > us vintage rat (no lm) (which also doesnt quite get there)> nano lpb-1 (which only works after the distorions or else it cuts all high end) > bass big muff (which is great // chained here because it splits my chain it two) :
dry out > behringer mixer (which also feeds my tc polytune from the phones output) > boss rc-300 (a tone killer and thats it) > fender frontman25 :) (which suprisingly adds bottom end to my final tone. )
effect out > small clone > mxr phase 90 (which seriously damages the tone > carbon copy (same here) > fender blues junior.
i also have a boss hyper fuzz which is only good for the booster function as it significantly boosts lows on bedroom levels which my blues junior lacks and boss mt-2 that sucks as it is but in the end it gets me much closer by itself to that desired wall of sound singing sustain/distortion than any of the above all together but ofcourse :)
thanks in advance, and sorry for the messy question.
[Hi! Sorry for my late reply. I'll try to keep this short... I think you've overcomplicated the setup. The guitar and amp should give you the tone you need and most of the pedals are spot on David's tones... among others. Now, when things aren't sounding how you want it, it's always a good idea to take one step back, unplug everything and start from scratch. Be sure to set the amp up for the clean tone you want. NEVER adjust the amp to fit the pedals. See this guide for amp setup tips.
Try arranging your pedals like this: guitar > octavio > wah > dynacomp > muff > rat > ocd > TD1. I'd ditch one of the Rats and perhaps even teh LPB-1. The OCD is a better pedal. Try plugging this into the amp and hear how it sounds. Remember to set the amp first, then the pedals. See this guide for some Muff tone tips.
The Behringer mixer might be one source to your problems. But keep it if the line to the RC3000 and Frontman works out. The Small Clone, Phase 90 and Carbon Copy should be placed after the OCD or, if you still want to split the signal, use a true bypass A/B splitter box instead of the Behringer.
You need to figure out the settings of the pedals yourself. This because settings depends on how loud you play, how you combine the pedals, your playing technique etc. None of the pedals you have should mess up the signal, so there's something else that's the source. Try the stuff I've mentioned and let me knoiw if you still have problems. - Bjorn]
Nice work, very helpful
I would appreciate your help with the order of the following pedals:
guitar > axxess buffer > volume > WHAH > comp > MUFF > AC booster > RC booster > GT2 sansamp > 808 > rotophase(vintage) > boss ce-2 > ibanez cs-9 > EH holy grail > TC d-two > EH memory man > amp
Thank you for all the work you do
[Thanks! The setup looks fine. You might want to place the volume pedal at the very end of the chain though. Placing it first is like using the guitar volume. Placing it last and it's a master control. - Bjorn]
I prefer volume pedals pre Delay/Reverb so the trails can continue as you fade but that may be just me :P
[Agree. - Bjorn]
im sorry for the me messy message, id sure appreciate your help with the best setup for the next pedals, i just seem to lose definition and punch.
strat > wah > octavio > big muff > boss fz-2 > dynacomp > nady TD-1 > rat2 > vintage rat > o.c.d > lpb 1 > bass big muff > small clone > phase 90 > carbon copy > boss rc-300 > boss ps-6 harmonist > boss mt-2 > polytune > fender blues junior+frontman25
thank you.
[Please see my reply in your first comment. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn,
From my guitar to my amp I have a boss tu-3, Dunlop cry baby, boss super overdrive, Russian big muff, rogue TB delay. Any ideas of how to get the warmest/best tone out of those pedals? Thanks!
[What guitar, pickups and amp do you have? - Bjorn]
Blues Jr stock, 2004 american strat stock pickups. Not the hand wound ones used for the 50th anniversary. Using All monster cables
[OK, see this feature for amp setup tips. As for the pedals, the settings depends on how loud you play, in what room the amp is placed, what sounds you want and your technique. The Muff can stand alone but you'll get smoother tones if you combine it with the overdrive. In that case, I'd place the overdrive after the Muff. The idea is to setting the Muff up for the desired tone and then adding the overdrive set for clean boost after it. See this feature for some Muff tone tips. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]
Thanks for the timely responses! You just gained a new regular reader. The sound I’m generally shooting for is that fat SRV tone. I’m thinking bout doing some BillM mods to the Jr. to get a little more bass in my amp. I play in a full band at least once a week in bars holding about 50-75 people so I’ve got my volume up to around 4-5 and my master volume usually around 6-7. Not trying to blow peoples ears out. I use the over drive regularly and have the big muff driving it. I’ll try it the other way around. With the older russian models of the big muff does it really make a huge difference having a buffered pedal in front of it? I also hear that a fuzz should go first in the chain. If that is the case should I run my board guitar->big muff-> cry baby-> overdrive-> delay-> boss tu-3-> amp. That’s my last question thanks a lot!
[The Muff isn't really a fuzz. Technically it's more a distortion so you can place it anywhere you want it really. Doesn't react to buffers. Cheers! - Bjorn]
Thank you for your answer Bjorn, it helped me immensely.
i got rid of some pedals, and rearranged the rest from scratch following your adviced and in the end was able to get me some neat animals/dark side/wall tones from that setup.
i discovered then though, that my blues junior somewhat lacks bottom end… as in.. it is not filling the room enough on low levels.. neither it does on higher volume levels. it just seems undefined and muddy comparing to larger amps ive heard for example fender vm deluxe or such.
value per money i am considering to get a second hand vox ac30cc2 (at the price of a fender vm model) to fullfill my needs, but i am not quite sure that it is a fitting amp for david kind of tones, would you recommend it as such? i like the clean tone of the fender vm but the digital fx section somewhat irritates :)
i’ve read in one of your replies that the tube driver needs to be driven hard to get that smooth tone out of it, do you mean that the gain on the pedal itself is supposed to be set high, or that it needs to be driven by some other kind of boost?
would you recommend getting one? as ive mentioned i have a nady td-1 which gets many compliments online and is even said to be able to produce similar sounds to the tube driver but i am still finding myself struggling with it to get any tone at all.. exept maybe very mild overdrive, any advice in the TD tone would be appreciated :)
Thank you.
[Glad to hear that it worked out! The Blues Jr is a smaller amp and may lack some of the frequencies you find in bigger setups. I haven't had any problems with the bass my self though... Have you checked the tubes? Perhaps they need to be replaced? Anyway, AC30 is a great Gilmourish amp. I also recommend that you check out the Peavey Classic 30. Perhaps a bit closer to that Fender tone than the AC30.
The Tube Driver, and I recon the TD1 as well, needs a loud amp to get that those smooth overdrive tones. What this means, is that when you play loud with a tube amp, the tubes will heat up and produce a boosted tone. It can be clean or overdriven but you want that combo of the boosted tubes and the nearly clipping speakers. This of course, if difficult to achieve on lower volume. That's where the more modern pedals comes in. Pedals like the Tube Screamer, OCD, Plexidrive etc are all designed to capture the tone you get from cranking a tube amp, with or without a booster or Tube Driver. See? You could add a booster after the TD but it wouldn't do much since you're basically boosting the preamp section. Louder volume will boost the output tubes, which is what you want. In the case volume is a problem, I'd simply choose a different pedal. - Bjorn]
Here’s the deal with buffers. A buffer is an electronic circuit that presents a high impedance load to the guitar, and a low impedance output. The reason lots of new pedals are made this way is that it’s the correct way of doing things. Also there are no high quality buffers, or low quality buffers, other than noise or distortion. But what you have a higher output impedance than others, or a lower input impedance. That brighter tone you hear with a buffer is the true tone of your guitar; like it, or not. The buffer is preserving the tone that the cable and passive controls remove. But we have gotten used to that tone, and we like it.
If you plug your guitar into a pedal with a low input impedance, it sucks the high end out of the guitar, and will also sometimes reduce the over all level. Very old effects were made this way, not on purpose, but because the people designing the circuits didn’t know any better, or didn’t care.
This is the reason why “true bypass became important. On some pedals, they used a cheaper SPDT switch, and left the inout of the circuit always connected to the input jack. All they did was switch the output. This caused treble loss. So true bypass is an improvement.
The problem with doing true bypass on some effects is you will get a volume drop when the effect is in. This is true of unbuffered wahs. This gets back into the insertion loss from the low input impedance. You don’t notice it when it’s not true bypass because your level is always lower.
The “problem” with buffers because old “junky” (but cool sounding) fuzz designs, like a Fuzz Face, is that the buffered guitar signal is the true tone of the guitar. But the fuzz often sounds better with the high end from the guitar rolled off. This was a side affect of the low input impedance. So now the buffered signal sounds brighter. The buffer is nit to blame, it’s the poor circuit design of the fuzz. But of course we like that tone.
I’m not sure why no one has done it yet, but this is not that hard to fix. The input stage of the fuzz can be modified to alter the buffered signal to sound like an unbuffered signal. I haven’t tried it, but it should be doable.
One thing, with the tube drivers, they have rather high output impedances. depending on what you plug them into, you will lose signal level. A buffer after the TubeDriver is very important. This is a design flaw because the TubeDriver takes the output right off the tone stack, and needs a buffer. I have a BlueTube and it suffers from the same problem.
Lastly, the reason why it’s good at have at least 2 buffers in your signal chain is that when you have all your true bypass pedals bypassed, you have introduced a lot of cable capacitance into your signal. If you have enough pedals, this will suck tone pretty quickly.
[Thanks a lot for the input, David! - Bjorn]
Hi,
i have a question. I got some buffer pedals in my pedalboard, and no perfect idea how to set them. The idea is to do it that way:
guitar –> Ernie Ball volume JR (for passivei instruments) –> whammy IV –> fulltone fulldrive –> ibanez tubescreamer –> boss tu-2 —> amp
effects loop (orange rockerverb 50 which has high impedance output actually):
send –> mxr phase 90 –> electroharmonix pulsar –> line 6 echo park –> line 6 dl4 –> boss dd-20 –> electro harmonix holy grail –> effects loop return
what do you think about it?
I used to hav TU-2 in the beggining of the chain and volume right before the amp input, but i red that it might suck tone…
thanks!
[Well, there's a million way to set up the pedals. I've never experienced any tone drain with the TU nor an Ernie Ball VP. Placing the VP after the delays allows the delays to sustain when you lower the volume. It's also acts like a master volume for the whole setup, while the guitar volume is a gain volume. If you have the VP first, and lower the volume, you'll decrease the amount of signal to the pedals... not just the volume. If you're using the amp's gain, then placing the modulations and delays in the loop is fine. If you run a clean amp, then you're better off with all the pedals in the front input. Most loops tend to suck tone and be a little noisy. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
I was considering to insert in my pedalboard a true bypass switcher by Lehle, which from what I read on the web, is hailed as the ultimate pro switching sytem with no signal loss, high quality components and no coloration to the tone. http://www.lehle.com/frameset.php?country=it&lang=en
This innovation is caused by the fact that we’re gonna play “Shine On You Crazy Diamond (p.6-9)” and so, I would connect the Strat on one channel and the Slide guitar on the other.
I’d like to have your suggestions/opinions about it, if there are any other way to achieve the goal; my setup is the following:
Strat (Dave Allen 69 voodoo blues set PU’s)
Dunlop Fuzz Face Hendrix signature
Cry Baby (reversed for Echoes)
MXR Dyna Comp
Pig Hoof
Colorsound Power Boost
EHX Small Stone Nano
EHX El.Mistress Deluxe
Boss DD20 Digital Delay
Boss RT20 Rotary Simulator
Between the DD20 and the RT20 there’s an ARTEC AB BOX switch (true bypass) which enables me to send the complete effects chain PLUS the Leslie (RT20) only to the second amp (Vox Valvetronix) or to both the amps (Hiwatt Maxwatt 200W head on 4×12 Hiwatt speaker + Vox Valvetronix) for those tracks on which the leslie sound must be predominant (Any Colour You Like….Dogs..etc…)
Thank you again for your patience, your site and work is as always an absolute reference point.
Ciao!
Matteo
[Hi Matteo! Thanks for your kind words! I've never tried the Lehle switchers myself, so I can't really tell. From what I've read and heard though, they seem to be quite good and versatile. Your setup looks great! Don't really have anything to add :) - Bjorn]
Hi,
I have;
LTD ec 1000 deluxe
Crybaby (Orginal)
Dyna comp (Modded)
Mooer green mile OD
Big Muff Pi Bass
Boo instruments Boost
Digitech rock distortion
Boss CE2 chorus
Mad professor Deep blue delay
Laney 5w Lionheart
In this order and have this issue whereby everytime I turn the wah on the tone gets real thin and tinny, to the point where I generally no longer turn it on, is there anything you can see there that I am doing wrong?
I believe that most of them are true bypass? I use good quality short leads on all of my setup
Cheers
Lee
[There shouldn't be any problems or signal issues with using wah's in this setup. Naturally, the wah acts like a tone knob, so you'll have brighter and darker tones as you move the sweep. The old circuit wahs also rolls off some of the treble but that shouldn't leave the overall signal sounding thin. Are you sure there's nothing wrong with the patch cable to/from the wah, the powering or the pot inside? - Bjorn]
Right now my pedalboard looks like: TC polytune mini > Crybaby classic > DLS Versa Vibe > AnalogMan modded TS9 > Empress paraEq > amp; FXsend > TCE flashback delay > TCE HoF reverb > FXreturn. When playing an amp without FX loop I just put the delay and reverb in after the paraEQ. Anyway, this is pretty much all true bypass (I think) so would you recommend buffer(s) at beginning and/or end of chain, or buffered (not TBP) stomp boxes such as a a compressor or something else? Also, what would you recommend about my pedal order?
I mostly play strats, but occaisionally play a Les Paul or something with P90′s. My amps include Vox AC15, Fender Princeton Reverb RI, blackstar HT 5th and a couple of others, I play back and forth between a couple of these for a while (few weeks to a few months) and then switch it up.
[The setup looks fine. Personally, I'd place all the pedals in front of the amp but if you use the amp's gain stage, you probably want the delays in the loop. Anyway, you don't need buffers but all true bypass pedals will cut some of your top frequencies. A buffer in front of the board and one at the end of the board will bring back most of what you've lost. You could run a couple of Boss pedals or just some dedicated buffers. It's down to taste anyway. Some prefer the darker tone while others can't stand it. - Bjorn]
Great article, thanks!
A couple questions:
1. Is the Morley A/B/Y a good enough split for a tuner? I know when I use A+B, it’s noticeably bad but if I just use it to switch to my TU-2 to tune, will that have a negative affect on my tone?
2. I just reintroduced a RAT into the mix. I’m using it for a pretty thick, fuzzy tone compared to my normal, light/mid gain. Is it considered a ‘fuzz’ as in, should be first in the chain? Or, even though it sounds ‘fuzzy’, it’s not a fuzz so it doesn’t need to?
Here’s my setup for the whole picture. ANY input on order is appreciated:
guitar–>TU-2(?)–>George Dennis optical Wah(I may ditch this)–>JHS Pulp ‘n’ Peel(V3 with built-in JHS little black buffer)–>RAT–>MXR Zakk Wylde overdrive–>JHS Double Barrel–>modded TR-2–>Echo Park–>DL-4–>MXR Micro Amp(recovering some volume from delays and tremolo)–>amp
[I don't have any experience with the Morley but tuners should be placed in a loop or a separate line for the cleanest signal. The RAT is not a fuzz but a distortion and it can be placed anywhere in the chain :) - Bjorn]
*FYI
The JHS Pulp ‘n’ Peel can be buffered or true bypass via an internal switch.
I typed, and submitted this, but it didn’t show up after it refreshed, so I’ll try again. I just read an article about signal loss with the EB VP Jr. The article stated that the pedal split your signal in half, and if you used the tuner out, it split again. I have the 25k model, for large boards, which he didn’t mention, he only said that it became audibly very noticeable when using 5 or 6 pedals. I have 12 on my board. I think you have the regular 250k pot in yours, have you noticed any real issues? Do you plug your tuner into the VP, or if not, where would you suggest I place the tuner?
Thanks, and due to how funny your remarks about my GAS problem were, maybe you should try your hand at comedy! :) Keith
[Ha ha! Yeah, well maybe I should try that... Anyway, I haven't really explored this that much myself. I know that using the VP as a splitter for the tuner is not the way to go but again, I need to test this more. Do you have the link for the feature? - Bjorn]
I’ll find it, and send it to your email. He used spectrum analysis to illustrate his point, I hope I can find it again!
Keith
Hey Bjorn, the article is in your inbox! To all out there, its a compilation of tech articles that would help any player, so I’ll give the address here, if I can, I’m comupter illiterate, but here goes, it’s:
http://www.jhspedals.com/tech-articles/ It has alot more than just the volume pedal part. It starts with Fuzz 101, and runs the gamut of all things pedal. It even has a section with a video by one of Zappa’s techs, about buffers, and their placement. I believe the video has some spectrum analysis included, but I’ve read so much this week, I may be wrong about the analysis. However, it is a must read for serious pedal freaks like most of us!
Peace, Love, and Gilmourish, Keith
[Thanks for the link, Keith! I'll have a look :) - Bjorn]
Bjorn, I have an actual question that I don’t have a clue about solving. I just had my board built, but realized I had it wired wrong. I want to spilt my signal so I can send the RT-20 to a separate amp, but don’t know how, or where to split it. Originally, I thought if I sent my mono path through the DD-20, I could send one out to the Reeves, and the other to the RT, and out to the second amp. Is there a box that I can put anywhere in the chain to split the signal, and should this box be buffered to boost the spilt signal, and lastly, where would you split the signal to go to the rotatating speaker emulator? I want to be able to use it in at home/ jams in the chain, right at the end, but live, I’d love to have a separate amp as a Leslie, that can be more out front for Animals type tones. I hope I said all that so you’d get what I’m trying to say. If so, what should I do?
Thank you sir, Keith
[I think the best option would be a splitter box after the delays. Send one signal to the RT20 and amp 1 and the other signal to a dry amp 2. I prefer true bypass switchers. The DD20 will buffer before the splitter. Check out loooper.com and loop-master.com.- Bjorn]
Thanks for your answer Bjorn. Now I need to learn how these loopers work. As I’ve stated previously, I’m new to the whole pedal thing. I’ve learned so much in my year on Gilmourish, not even knowing what a buffer was a year ago, and because I learn quickly, and dive into things I’m interested in with all my heart, I think I’ve learned alot about most oedals, and how they work, and affect your tone. However, the links for the loopers you gave me showed me that there’s always more to learn,( as if I didn’t know that life lesson already,haha!), but the first picture that popped up looked a bit intimidating, and I’m wondering if you could recommend a book, or site that explains loopers, from the simple, to full blown board controllers? Also, I assume you meant to split the signal coming out of the DD-20, into the splitter, and the thru,(what you called the dry signal, which I took to mean the entire path, minus the RT.) Into my main amp, and the 2nd out into the other amp so that all the effects, plus the RT go to the second amp. Or, would it be better to have the signal split at the beginning of the chain, wuth the loopers second out having a distortion pedal, and RT only, going into the “Leslie” amp. I guess I’m just trying to find out if the sound DG gets, has all of the effects going through his rotating speKers? Abd lastly,
[You can split the signal anywhere you want but David, when he used rotating speaker cabs, split the signal after all the effects, including the delays. The rotating speaker would then modulate the entire signal. A splitter is basically a small passive box with one jack in and two outs. Booth of the companies I linked to, offer different customised versions of this but the principle is the same. A looper, has two ins and outs and allows you to place one or more pedals outside your main chain. Check out this interview with Bob Bradshaw explaining his looper and control boards. - Bjorn]
I did not hit submit! SO! And lastly, I seem to remember that rotating speakers should have some dirt before them, so would this work? The looper from the mono out of the DD-20, or wherever you end up saying after reading this, with one out to the Reeves, and the other to the TSA15H, and then sticking the RT-20 into the faux loop on the amp,( it’s not a real effects loop, but an out from the Tube Screamer, and the return is the actual input to the amp.), which would allow me to have the tube screamer in front if the RT, for the dirt. Is the TS 9 a good way to overdrive a rotating speaker? Sorry to make this so long, but I want my rig to be set up as best as it can be. So, I guesss the only real questions are: Where to learn how loopers work, should a “Leslie” get all of the effects, and does the idea about sticking the RT in the fauz loop on the TSA sound like a viable way to give it it’s overdrive? I hope you understand my post, as I’m thinking this out while writing it. In any case, thanks for all the info you’ve crammed into my brain this! oast year, and pretty soon, I’ll almost know a little about pedals,hehe!
Peace my friend, Keith
[See my previous reply, Keith. I recommend that you split the signal after the delay and feed one line into each amp, with the RT20 on one of the feeds. - Bjorn]
Yeah Bjorn, I didn’t mean to sound like I was asking the same question. In the second part, I was mostly trying to see what tou thought about using that faux loop to overdrive the RT. Isn’t a rotating speaker supposed to be overdriven a bit, prior to the “Leslie”, or in my case the RT-20? Sorry it didn’t come out that way the first time.
Thanks, Keith
[OK, well, you don't have to overdrive a rotary or Leslie but those old cabs had tube powered pre-amps, which produced an overdrive when pushed hard by the organ. The RT20 has an overdrive feature but I'd rather use a better sounding pedal - if you use the RT20 alone. I haven't tried overdriving with a channel loop but it might work. But, if you split the signal before the RT20 and feed one of the lines, which has all the Muffs, modulations and delays, you'd want the RT20 clean. Adding overdrive to that already saturated feed will only sound muddy and probably cause a lot of feedback. So again, try different setups and hear how that sounds, but in terms of David's tones, split the signal after the delay, place the RT20 on one feed and have a second dry feed. That works great for me at least :) - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn, Since deciding to purchase the 3 knob London fuzz from Michael, I’ve once again put myself in the, ” What am I going to do about that wah?” Conundrum. I am having my old 1998 RMCIII gone through, and restored to it’s original great sound, but I’m considering the FoxRox fuzz friendly mod from analogman, do you know of this, the only mod I’m considering? The Teese pedals are very vintage sounding when you tune them right, but being TB, they definitely don’t play well with vintage fuzz, without this mod. Do you think that’s the way I should go?
Thanks Gilmourish master, KC, the POSTMASTER GENERAL!
[Please see my reply to your mail :) - Bjorn]
Bjorn, didn’t know where to put this one, so it’s here,he he. Do you know what plectrum DG preferred in the early period, and what do you normally use. I had used the Dunlop .60mm nylons for a long time, then went to a slightly thicker large triangular pick that I could modify slightly on one or two corners for a different attack. Lately though, I’ve found I’ve been using the triangular Clayton 1 mm. They’re so much thicker than I thought. I found a few of them lying around, and had no idea they were as thick as they are, until I looked at one this morning. It seems that shen I started playing, I used Fender thins, and the longer I play, the more comfortable I am with a much stiffer pick. I’m curious if that’s the case with others. I guess my technique
[Not sure what David used back in the early days. I know he used herco and guild at some point - still do. As far as I know, he's been using 0.75 and 1mm. I'm using Dunlop Tortex Jazz 1mm. Always has. I like the picks thick. It adds a slight compression and fat attack. I sometimes also use a coin. It's a trick I picked up after reading that Billy Gibbons used Mexican pesos. Works especially well with humbuckers. - Bjorn]
Crap, as my technique evolves, my touch gets lighter, as I thought the 1mms I’m using, were .60 at most, but they are so easy to use for pinch harmonics, and I guess I used to depend on the thinner pick for fast strumming, because of heavy handedness that seems to be overcome. I know that’s alot for such a subjective issue, but I am very curious.
Thanks, sorry about the two parter, I accidentally h!!!it submit, AGAIN! KC POSTMASTER
Yes, I too used to file a quarter into a pick. I’ve heard of many guitarists who’ve used coins at some point.
postmaster K
Yeah, I used the Tortex for quite awhile when they first came out. They gad this really weird one that had three different shapes, one on each side, kinda looked like a stretched out wing of some strange bird. I’ll have to try the Jazz 1mm. I do like the big triangular picks though, and Dunlop does make them in Tortex. I’m not sure why I quit using the Tortex, I used the green ones, which are. 60 I think. I believe I kept breaking them, they’re quite brittle, especially in cold weather, but I bet the 1 mm thickness wouldn’t break if you tried! I’m going to see if they feel right again, I used those probably longer than anything,( not the chicken wings, but the regular small ones), although, something about these Clayton’s feels almost perfect. Okay, enough about plectrum’s
Thanks Bjorn, you’ve got me thinking, and that’s always a good thing! K~
[It's always fun to experiment with different pics and it's often an overlooked part of creating a tone. Different gauges, sizes and different kinds of material will all have an impact on the tone. I sometimes use picks with a grainy surface. By allowing the grain to scratch the sring you can add a very pronounced attack. I think The Edge use this trick quite a lot. Try also experimenting with using different angles on the pick. The front point that one normally uses, will create a mild attack, while the sides and the rounded corners will produce a darker tone. Tilting the pick and using the edge, will create a brighter tone with a more noticeable attack. This is great for cleans where you want to add dynamics in the tone. David's using this a lot. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn
This tread makes great reading. Here is my predicament.
I Have a Marshall JCM900 4100 Duel Reverb running JJ EL34′s its biased to around 36. This sits on top of a 1936 Marshall 2×12. For a long time now I have found this amp to be very treblely and not very warm through the mids, I am looking for those nice silky blues warm classic rock tones, anyway i have been using a Boss ME50 multi effects pedal board but it sucks tone so i have been advised to sell it and go with individual pedals instead. I’m a rhythm guitarist and play a 2003 ’56 Gibson les paul std. I used my lead guitarists Boss GE7 EQ to add some colour to my tone by cutting boosting the mids and cutting the highs and this gave me the sound i have been looking for, But this would mean leaving The pedal in the on position on my board and in an earlier answer you said that was not good?
The other pedals i have are a Boss OD3 and now i need a tuner. I was looking at a pitch black true bypass or should i go with the Boss TU2 and in what order should i run these pedals
Many Thanks
Matt
[Hi Matt! Sorry for my late reply. The TU2 has a buffer, while the Pitch Black is true bypass. Other than that, they're fairly similar. Leaving the EQ on all the time isn't necessarily a bad thing. If it's there to sculpt the tone you get from the amp, then it's for a specific purpose. However, the best and purest tone will always the that from your amp with as few pedals as possible. - Bjorn]
Hello Bjorn,
I got back to this thread because I do own a couple of Boss pedals, and I’m about to order a CS-2, and a DD-2 on ebay.
Do you think that those early 80′s japanese pedals do degrade the signal / suck tone?
And if I may, I’d like to have your opinion about the advantages of using a True bypass looper.
I don’t have much boss pedals in the signal chain, and I’m planning to use a maximum of 2 at the same time (DD-2 + CS-2), among other boutique pedals that are All 3PDT real True Bypass.
I ‘ve never used a true bypass looper before, so here’s a newbie question: I know that they prevent from tone sucking when you turn them off (it acts the same way as a True Bypass pedal that you turn off) – not in the effects chain anymore – .
BUT does a true bypass looper (let’s say with a real tone sucking newer boss pedal attached to it), also preserve from tone sucking when you turn the looper on, to put the boss pedal in the pedal chain again?
In other words, does the true Bypass looper work also to prevent from tone sucking when it’s on (And has the same impact on tone as if the Boss pedal was Real true Bypass)?
I’m thinking about using a single True Bypass looper dedicated to each of My 90s boss pedals which are Boss CE-5, Boss CH-1, Boss DS-2.
I hope I’ve made myself clear….. Not sure tough…
What would be your recommandation for a good True bypass looper ? Keeley? Wobo?
Regards, Thanks again!
Sebastien
[True bypass VS buffers is a delicate matter with different opinions. It basically comes down to two things. How to get the best signal possible for the guitar, pedals and amp to sound most natural and, second, what do you consider is a good tone. How much drainage can you live with? First of all, buffers doesn't suck or drain tone. They're basically small preamps that are designed to drive the signal of the low output pickups through long cables and one or more pedals. A guitar plugged striaght into the amp with a 0.5m high quality cable will give you the best signal but obviously, we need longer cables to be able to move around and for our pedals. So, the longer cable you use to and from the board and between the pedals, the more drainage there will be. Also, the more pedals you add, the more drainage there will be because a true bypass pedal will have some cabeling inside. This is the facts. The different opinions is about whether or not a buffer will improve your tone (not the signal).
Some guitarists likes the slightly darker tone you get from long cables and all true bypass pedals. In some cases it rolls off harsh overtones and makes everything seem smoother, while the fact is that it will drain your signal for nuances that could have made your tone sound better. Many people hate the effect of a buffer because they're not used to their signal getting brighter - meaning: more natural sounding.
Personally I like having a buffer first in the chain and last in the chain. This will drive the signal to and from the board while maintaining a natural siganl flow between the true bypass pedals. It my personal opinion because it seems to work best for my setup. Now, keep in mind that a buffer is active regardless whether the pedal is on or off. This means that a Boss pedal that's not in use, still has an active buffer. This also means that if you have Boss pedals, or other buffered pedals in the chain, you don't need single buffers. A buffered compressor firsth in the line and a buffered delay last, will take care of the signal and drainage. However, you may want to add a dedicated buffer at the end of the board IF you have true byapss pedals in between or after the last buffer. Sorry if this is confusing. Again, it comes down to how much drainage you're willing to accept. Keep in mind that a 20 feet cable at the and will suck a lot of tone.
Last, some will tell you that any true byapss pedal will mess up your signal. That's not true. Cornish, Bradshaw and other advocates for buffers dismiss true bypass all together but I disagree. What's important is how you arrange the board and chain and how this sounds to your ears. Do your self a favour though - test your chain with and without buffers and hear how that affects your tone. Sorry for the long reply but I hope this cleared up the topic. - Bjorn]
Hey Bjorn, I have a question based on your reply to Sebastien. I have I believe all TB pedals up to the DD-20, and RT-20, both at the very end of my chain. I also have a large board with many pedals, so should I get a dedicated buffer to put at the input of my board? I’ll need to look at the instructions, but I think the ’76 Dynacomp RI is TB, which were it buffered, I assume would be a great way to start my chain, but I think all of the RI’s are TB. What say you? A buffered Univibe would be a good first pedal, but I’m set on the Vibe Machine, which is another TB pedal. I definitely need the boost, 10 to 14 pedals, all but 2 of them True Bypass. Just curious what you would do!
Thanks for the gazillionth time, Keith
[The MXR RIs are hardwire bypass. Not true bypass. You may experience that the 76 sounds brighter with a buffer next to it. Any Boss pedal has a buffer so a compressor or tuner first and a delay or a dedicate buffer, like the CostaLab Buffer, at the end would do the trick :) - Bjorn]
Could a TU2 placed at the beginning of my chain be the answer?
K~
@Keith…yeah but don’t put a buffer in front of the Fuzz pedals! Especially that sweet MJM you are getting:)
[Of course! Good point Stephen. Although, I though Keith kept the fuzz pedals on a second board? Perhaps I misread... - Bjorn]
No, everythings going on the board,( it’s disassembled until I’m done getting my pedals, and chain worked out. I am keeping the volume, wah, and speed pedal for the Vibe Machine off the board. But Bjorn, hardwire bypass still is an unbuffered pedal, correct? So, I should go Wah, Fuzzes, buffer, Dynacomp, distortion, boost, modulation, volume, delays, rotary,right? So could I put the buffered TU-2 between the London Fuzz, and the Dynacomp? Or is there a better chain your opinion, and you as well Stephen?
Thanks guys!
[OK, I misunderstood then. I'd keep all buffers as far away from any fuzz as possible. If you intend to use a TU2, then place it in a loop. You don't want to ruin the LF with a buffer that close. Also, I'd place the fuzz in front of the way - fuzz > wah > dyna > distortion > boost > modulation > volume > delays > rotary. If neither of these are buffered, I'd place a dedicated buffer, like the CostaLab Buffer after the rotary. Hardwire is unbuffered. - Bjorn]
So one buffer, at the end of the chain will be sufficient? And with the FoxRox fuzz friendly circuit, you still say Fuzz First? I keep getting wah first, no fuzz first, etc…. Will having two boss pedals, the DD-20, and the RT cause any issues, they are the last two pedals? And you’re saying I don’t need a buffer at the beginning, only the end of the chain? Lastly, will having both the Si, and the Ge fuzzes next to each other cause any issues? Unless I figure out some Holy Grail, I don’t see them ever being on at the same time! I think I’ve got it down, and I learn it all over at least once every couple months, lol.
Okay Master, I’ll get it straight, eventually :) Keith
[Forgot about the FoxRox... need to keep a database of everyone's gear LOL! I haven't tried that mod myself but I'm sure it works nicely. If so, then the wah can go first. No problem having the two fuzzes next to each other as they're both TB. I would't use them together though... too much noise. Better with a booster of some sort.
Anyway, this TB vs buffer topic may be confusing but apart from the fact that fuzz pedals don't like buffers, there's really nothing you can do wrong. There's no rule saying that you need buffers in the chain or where they should go. I think some of the guides out there are a bit misleading and neglect to mention that it's always up to you how you want to arrange the board. All TB, all buffers, a bit of both... doesn't really matter. Pretty obvious I know but again, well worth mentioning.
As you know, a buffer drives the signal from the pickups through the cables and pedals to the amp. Unless you plug the guitar straight into the amp with a 25cm cable (or so), there will always be some drainage. The more cable and pedals, the less the pickups are able to "see" the amp and you'll loose dynamics, nuances and frequencies. You don't need to place a buffer first but it helps driving the guitar signal intro the board. Likewise, you don't need a buffer at the end of the board but it helps drive the signal from the board to the amp. Buffers placed inside the chain, whatever pedal that may be, will help drive the signal from the guitar through the board and to the amp but any TB pedal and cables after that buffer, will cause some drainage.
I think my best tip is to try different combos and listen to how that affects your tone. Apart from the fuzz issue, a buffer won't alter your tone. You will experience that your tone gets brighter, clearer or more open and that some of your pedals may change to some tiny degree but this is actually a good thing. Perhaps you prefer that high end roll off, and that's OK, but what you perceive as brighter is actually the guitar being able to "see" the amp, which means you have a more transparent and cleaner signal.
Sorry for the long reply. - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn,
Beginning of this year I decided to completely change my rig. I bought a new VOX AC30C2x and started with a TS808 and later I bought a Fulltone OCD. I play meanly with my Les Paul (classic) or Fender US strat.
I have achieved some great classic tones with this setup, but there was still something on my whish list. So last week I bought me a Fuzz, Fulltone ’70 (BC-108C).
I have done some experimenting to see how my setup should be.
This is what I found the best;
Guitar>>Fulltone ‘70>>TS808>>OCD>>Amp
But I have the feeling that my Fuzz tone is changed by the TS808 buffer (TS off)…
I hear a difference when I stock my fuzz direct into my OCD, ‘cause I like also the tone when the Fuzz is going through the OCD (on).
Could there indeed be a tone difference when the fuzz signal is passing through the buffer of the TS808(off) to go in to the OCD?
I like also the sound when I play through the TS808 (on) into the OCD (on), that is the main reason why I have set the pedals this way.
I was thinking to create a true bypass switchbox to cut out the TS of the chain when not used, but I was wondering if there is a real noticeable tone difference when doing this?
Another question I have, what is the normal chain setup for a VOX? Pedals into normal channel or top boost? And keep the channel clean or give it a little dirt tone?
Thanks to give your remarks!
[Hi Kris! The answer to all your questions is really just - try different options and listen. There's no wrong way of combining the pedals or plugging them into your amp. It all depends on what tones you want. The TS will change the fuzz, making it sound a bit brighter. Placing the TS in a looper will solve the "problem". Using gain pedals, I think I'd plug them into the normal channel. This will be a neutral basis for the pedals. Cheers! - Bjorn]
I am with Bjorn except I still prefer my Wah in front of my fuzz for the more Hendrixy tone. Fuzzed wah has never gotten me there. Obviously you have to get the two pedals to agree to the Wah then Fuzz order but if and when you do it is golden!
So, my final take from this is, I really can put the wah befote, or after the fuzz, and I shouldn’t really need to boost my sinal until I get to the end, where the buffer will boost the original signal, eliminating most of the signal loss from the TB pedals, and extra cables. And once I put a buffer in the chain, don’t run anymore TB pedals after the buffered pedals. Is this what you meant? So, for my sake, I want to run this past bith you, and Stephen to see if it sounds like a good starting point: Cymbaline>TB Wah with FFT> London fuzz> Si fuzz> Dynacomp> Musket> TC Spark> Phase90>Deluxe Elec.Mistress>volume pedal>analog delay> DD-20>RT-20>amp(s)! And when I add the Vibe Machine, it should be first, or after the Wah? Is that a reasonable chain for so many pedals? I will likely never have them all on the board at the same time, but if I did, is this the way you’d be likely to chain them,( taking into account that there’s no set way that it has to be done.), it seems right according to the sum of what you both have told me you’d do, so I just want to be clear, and sure I’ve got the jist of what you’ve taught me. I’m getting a little forgetful in my old age,lol.
Thanks guys, Keith,( I’ll figure it out before I retire) Clarke
[The chain looks great. The DD20 and RT20 will buffer the signal nicely. Depending on what tones you want you can place the Vibe Machine both in front and after the gain pedals. Personally I prefer UniVibes first, after the wah. - Bjorn]
And to Stephen, and I wanted Bjorn to see this, I too have found since I really started to experiment, that I have been rolling the treble on my REEVES all the way down a great deal of the time. It amazes me just how different, and brighter these amps are than everything I’ve ever owned. Also, about my last post, after rereading your reply, it may help to put a buffer before the board, and since it wouldn’t be next to the fuzzes, but before the fuzz friendly wah, would that be okay? I do run a long, 20′ cord from Cymbaline to the first pedal, I need alot of space to shake my moneymaker, so to speak. LOL
Okay, I hope I’m getting the jist off it, Keith
4:37 pm EDT Saturday 4/13. After the hardest day I’ve had at work for many moons, I came home just now, and found something very nice on my bed. A box with a box, with a t-shirt, a red velvet bag, and my AVS LONDON FUZZ!! Only I’m way too worn out to plug it in tonoght. It’s much smaller, anx pedalboard friendly than the pictures looked, About as tall as a Spark boost, and one and a half times as wide, with tiny little chickenhead knobs. Looks like fun tomorrow! !!
Peace, a very beat Keith
[Congrats, Keith! Looking forward to your verdict :) - Bjorn]
Hi Bjorn, congrats for this excelent article
I have expanded my pedalboard in order to get more colours and tools, but I have experienced a dramatic loss in signal tone when everything is off compared to the direct signal without any pedals, lets say tha half of the tone is gone .
However if a turn on my compressor the tone seems to come back
I don´t want to have the compressor “on” all the time!!
All pedals claim to be true bypass and in fact I tried and they work without the DC on
my set up is like this: tc electronics polytune > vox big bad wah > envelope filter malekko > EHX soul preacher > pignose fat drive > EHX big muff > MOOER hustle drive > mooer octave > EHX LPB1 > tc electronics shacker > fulltone dejavibe 2 > EHX microsynth > EHX memoryman
what would you suggest?
are the mini pedals (Mooer / Malekko) of lower quality than the others?
should I leave the LPB on all the time?
thanks very much
Vareta Blues (Uruguay)
[Hi Vareta. Sorry for my late reply. You pretty much answered your own question... :) Expanding and adding more pedals will cause more tone loss. It's just the nature of the whole operation and it will happen even with the best quality parts and pedals. For each pedal you add, you will also add the components of the pedal, patch cables, plugs etc. This means that there will be more components preventing the guitar in "seeing" the amp. Now, a pure signal from the guitar to the amp can only be obtained with about 20cm of high quality cable. Anything more, will cause tone drainage. You can eliminate this to varying degree by using high quality cables and pedals but you must also arrange your pedal board with a firm hand and exclude everything that doesn't need to be there.
The reason you get some of the tone back when you engage the compressor, is because a compressor will compress the signal and act like a line driver as well. It's basically a gain pedal amplifying the signal. A booster does more or less the same thing. But, as you mention, you don't want these on all the time, so that's where a buffer comes in. As explained in the feature, buffers are basically small pre-amps that will drive the signal through long cables and pedals. A buffer doesn't alter your tone but rather restores the signal from your pickups and drives it through the chain. There's not one way to do this so experiment with different combinations until you've obtained the result you want. As explained in the feature, I prefer a buffer first and last in the chain. Hope this helped. - Bjorn]